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Free Energy Device

  1. Jul 14, 2003 #1
    Yeah I know thermodynamics says it's a scientific impossibility, but what is the closes inventors have come to a free energy device? Or what is the best energy producing system out there for its size[?]
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 14, 2003 #2
    A superconductor.
    There's one that can run at 125K I think.
     
  4. Jul 16, 2003 #3
    Somebody kick me for saying this,
    No energy in lots of energy out, the universe drrrrr, its got to be the best free energy device ever
     
  5. Jul 27, 2003 #4
    hmmmmmmm, i think the idea of making energy is impossible :) was it einstein who said "theres a set amount of energy in the universe, and all that can be done to it, is change its form". so technically you culd have a device which converts your surroundings into energy! but i cant even begin to think of how energy may be created! becasue its problalbly cant :) though im a bit of an optimist on theoretical physics, this is one matter (haw haw ;)) im agreed with the scientists on :)
     
  6. Jul 27, 2003 #5

    LURCH

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    Although I agree with Dave that a superconductor is the best way to preserve energy, it would appear that you're talking about generating energy, yes?

    If that is the case, then the most efficient way (currently known) is a matter-antimatter reaction. These can convert most of the matter involved into energy. Electron-positron anihilations appear to be 100% efficient, though I can't halp thinking there is some loss of energy we're not measuring.
     
  7. Jul 28, 2003 #6
    Scientific impossibility? I think not... You see, with our modern understanding of thermodynamics, it is impossible, but out understanding of thermodynamics is slowly changing and I hope that in the future, a device that produces energy without using any just may be possible...
     
  8. Jul 31, 2003 #7
    To whom it may concern...

    ...(all of you) I hate that they call them the "Laws" of thermodynamics when time and time again they are proved to be merely widely acceptable rules of thumb.
     
  9. Jul 31, 2003 #8
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2003
  10. Jul 31, 2003 #9
    imho, Casimir effect. Perhaps utopic would be having a pet-blackhole with small radius for hawking radiation..
    earth's spin. sun.
     
  11. Aug 1, 2003 #10

    russ_watters

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    Both of you are precisely wrong.
     
  12. Aug 2, 2003 #11
    i agree to disagree.

    i agree, there both wrong. Simply thinking about it shoudl make you realise you cant turn nothing into something.

    0 * 10 = 0
    0 * Infinity = 0

    it just cant be done.

    however i disagree in the way that so called "laws" cannot be called so called laws until there conpletele researched. for example until quantum theory came along there was a hell of alot more doubt as to whether certain things could be done, they went from an impossibility to a possibility but inproblalbility, and who knows, one day they may become real, but i dont think its fair to frame a rule until all other possibilitys have been reasearched (which culd take hundreds of years!)

    but you cant make something from nothing :) you may be able to make alot from very little, but something from nothing ? no. all energy sources have there limit :)

    so say you have something :)

    0.00000001 * 10 = 0.0000001
    0.00000001 * 100x10^18 = ALOT

    you just need a good source of enbergy to get a good thing going, but you cant have it going forever :)
     
  13. Aug 2, 2003 #12

    Integral

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    And just what does all this really say about Thermodynamics? Exactly zero. not approximatly but exactly nothing. If you wish to prove anytthing about the validtiy of theory you must address the topic head on not with unrelated trivial multiplications.

    Thermodynamics is about as solid a field of Physics as they get. There is nothing that will change it now or in the future.

    Why is that all pseudo scientist start by claiming that all we now know is wrong and just around the corner it will change.

    Natuarly you are the one with the great insite but are misunderstood and ignored.

    LOL
     
  14. Aug 2, 2003 #13

    russ_watters

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    AKA: pseudoscientific fallacy #1.

    "A" was a theory and has been proven wrong. "B" is also a theory and therefore may (will) also be proven wrong.

    Related to this is fallacy #2: All theories have the same strength. The statement: "[insert rock hard theory] is only a theory" is meant to insinuate that since no theory can ever be 100% proven, it will eventually be proven wrong.

    Sorry boys, you won't win any money betting against thermodyamics.
     
  15. Aug 2, 2003 #14
    so im wrong and you can get something from nothing, is what your trying to tell me ? im a physics noobie, relatively, i didnt know this went any further than simple multiplications! :-| dont just shout at me if your a mentor, teach me.

    edit:
    First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed.

    i.e. you cant get something from nothing ?????????
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2003
  16. Aug 2, 2003 #15
    No, you are correct in saying something in our universe can come from nothing. However, demonstrating that 0 times something is zero does not do enough to show this. Essentially all you did was add 10 zeros together. Wow. Generally, you would have to show that no energy can just appear out of nowhere (however I do not know of the proof off the top of my head).
     
  17. Aug 3, 2003 #16
    Oh come on! I read an article in SciAm saying that on small scales, a object (some kind of tiny bead I think it was) can rectify thermal energy into unidirectional motion. Not significant, but it does prove that they aren't laws, just rules of thumb that apply in ALMOST every imaginable cirumstance. And lets not forget the experimentally proved fact that particles/energy are popping in and out of existance everywherre in the quantum vacuum! So, my point, though almost meaning less, is true.
     
  18. Aug 3, 2003 #17
    A bit of a misnomer here. The laws of thermodynamics are statistical laws. And while certain microscopic systmes can seem to violate the laws, it has been found that the system compensates for this and more entropy is still produced in trying to set it up so that the system does that in the first place.

    As for virtual particles, they do not violate any laws. The reason is that they vanish in the shortest amount of time possible so as to not violate the law. It would be like taking out a loan for a million dollars and paying it back right away so you don't have to pay any interest.
     
  19. Aug 3, 2003 #18
    I'm just repeating what SciAm said. If we assume time is continuous, ie not discreet, then you will have to pay a lllllliiiitttllleee tttiiinnnyyy bit of interest, no matter what. Insignificant, but true.
     
  20. Aug 4, 2003 #19

    russ_watters

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    Johnathan, read up a little on the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Its what Brad was alluding to. HUP make some amazing things possible in the very microscopic scale, but the effects disappear when you look on the larger scale. Zero Point Energy perpetual motion machines are based on HUP, but they ignore the fact that HUP is a double edged sword - it predicts that the energy is there, but it also predicts that it can't be accessed.

    Pretty much, yeah. There is a way to summarize the 3 laws of thermodynamics like this:

    1. You can't win.
    2. You can't break even.
    3. The game is rigged (not sure about that one).
     
  21. Aug 4, 2003 #20
    Again I will point out that I'm refering to the ridiculusly insignificant, but provably existant, violation of the laws.we are going to have to agree to disagree, I'mgetting tired of arguing my tiny, stupid, little point.[zz)]
     
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