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DrWatson
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If there is an omnipotent god, how can we have free will? An omnipotent being would know the future, therefore the future would be set down, and we could not make decisions for ourselves.
Another equally valid possibility.DrMoreau said:Or, the deity could see all possible futures, and people would go through whatever future they choose.
How would that be possible? Would this omnipotent being also be thinking for you and performing all of your actions?DrWatson said:If there is an omnipotent god, how can we have free will? An omnipotent being would know the future, therefore the future would be set down, and we could not make decisions for ourselves.
DrWatson said:If there is an omnipotent god, how can we have free will? An omnipotent being would know the future, therefore the future would be set down, and we could not make decisions for ourselves.
DrWatson said:If there is an omnipotent god, how can we have free will? An omnipotent being would know the future, therefore the future would be set down, and we could not make decisions for ourselves.
DrMoreau said:This is all implying that omnipotence is possible in the sense of knowing the future without any doubt. To forsee the future, you would need to know the exact position and velocity of every particle in the universe, which, according to quantum mechanics, is impossible, as it violates the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.
Omnipotent means 'all powerful', and yes that's nonsensical from a science/logic point of view, but it also, by definition, means nothing is impossible for such a being, assuming one believes in an omnipotent being.jiohdi said:which is impossible
turbo-1 said:Another equally valid possibility.
raolduke said:The point is.. Is that we don't know.
There are 2 possible outcomes when you talk about a divine being's judgement in several faiths - Salvation or damnation. Every decision that we make from the time we are born to the time we die determines where we are placed.
When you go to a store you can easily steal something you were planning on paying for by accidentally putting it in your pocket.. It is your decision whether not you will return to the store and pay for the item or not. An occasion of ignorance, an example of free will?
rook_b said:I'll assume that when you say omnipotent you mean omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. And, assuming that this god has foreknowledge (neat word, sorry) of a persons actions. It doesn't follow that the person did not have free will with their actions.
Consider free will without this god. If you believe in fundamental and static laws for this universe then it is reasonable that there is a predetermined outcome for everything. This situation isn't much different from one with an omniscient god, except that this god knows your choices your choices before you; they were inevitable anyway.
Like JoeDawg said, you only really lose your free will when this being uses its power to force certain choices onto you. Sorry, I know this has all been said, but I wanted to state my solution in my words.
jiohdi said:The flaw I see in this scenerio is that this being seems to be a slave of its own omniscience and never had any choice in what it had to do because it always had to do it.
jiohdi said:if this god is also the creator, then you lose your freewill because it was his ultimate and knowing choice, presuming he had freedom, that made the entire universe presumably fit his desires and so your actions were all determined by this one act. The flaw I see in this scenerio is that this being seems to be a slave of its own omniscience and never had any choice in what it had to do because it always had to do it.
jiohdi said:there was an article in Scientific American years ago about why no one, not even a god could know the actual future. It had to do with the need to sample data in order to become aware of it and anything less than an infinite sample, which is impossible, will introduce data gaps which exponentially increase and very quickly obscure whatever projections you might make about the future.
Nesag said:If God knows the possibilities but not the outcome, then he is not really omniscient is he?
No, you're talking about predicting the future. An omniscient being is able to be in the future even while being in the present. He could simply observe future events without knowing (or - being omniscient - at least without caring) about individual atoms.DrMoreau said:This is all implying that omnipotence is possible in the sense of knowing the future without any doubt. To forsee the future, you would need to know the exact position and velocity of every particle in the universe, which, according to quantum mechanics, is impossible, as it violates the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.
DaveC426913 said:No, you're talking about predicting the future. An omniscient being is able to be in the future even while being in the present. He could simply observe future events without knowing (or - being omniscient - at least without caring) about individual atoms.
Any god that "chooses" not to know something, then during the time internal of the choice, that god is not "all knowing"--it is trivial that such a god "wills not to know"--the fact is it does not know at all time intervals between any two moments.Hell_SD said:...yes, if he knows the possibilities and chooses not to know the outcome as per adam eve and the fruit ?
DrWatson said:If there is an omnipotent god, how can we have free will? An omnipotent being would know the future, therefore the future would be set down, and we could not make decisions for ourselves.
Moridin said:The metaphysical free will does not exist, but one can do things voluntarily. Your subconscious starts acting before you conscious know what is happening. If you had the same genetic and environmental influences as any given mass murderer, you would have done the same thing. The key is to understand causality.