French TV's Game of Death

  • #1
Ivan Seeking
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Main Question or Discussion Point

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9AkZWp3mDc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiXTLgZ-O6g

The Milgram Experiment
The Milgram's experiment on obedience to authority figures was a series of social psychology experiments conducted by Yale University psychologist Stanley Milgram, which measured the willingness of study participants to obey an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts that conflicted with their personal conscience. Milgram first described his research in 1963 in an article published in the Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology,[1] and later discussed his findings in greater depth in his 1974 book, Obedience to Authority: An Experimental View.[2]..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
 
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Answers and Replies

  • #2
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Well the cat is out of the bag now. Who wants to pretend shock a person?
 
  • #3
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Well the cat is out of the bag now. Who wants to pretend shock a person?
It gives people a chance to be on TV, and gain some publicity.
 
  • #4
Ivan Seeking
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Well the cat is out of the bag now. Who wants to pretend shock a person?
You are missing the point.
 
  • #5
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You are missing the point.
What is the point? People do cruel stuff for 15 minutes of fame, or that the TV show wont be successful now because that element of "holy Mary and Joseph I am shocking someone" is gone.
 
  • #6
Ivan Seeking
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What is the point? People do cruel stuff for 15 minutes of fame, or that the TV show wont be successful now because that element of "holy Mary and Joseph I am shocking someone" is gone.
The point is that with a little persuasion, people can easily be motivated to torture others; even to point of hitting the victim with a potentially lethal shock - all for a game in this case.

If you read the wiki link that I provided, you will see that this plays on a famous experiment from the 1960's.
 
  • #7
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Milgram's essay "The perils of obedience" is a fascinating read. It demonstrates how easily ordinary people conform to authority. Even if people strongly disagree with the decision, people can be ordered to do evil things once they sense the blame can absorbed by the figure of authority.

In the second video clip above, the audience hollers to crank up more voltage to inflict more pain. That's sick.

It's sort of like the gang rape case in California, where more than 20 people gathered around to watch.
 
  • #8
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The point is that with a little persuasion, people can easily be motivated to torture others; even to point of hitting the victim with a potentially lethal shock - all for a game in this case.

If you read the wiki link that I provided, you will see that this plays on a famous experiment from the 1960's.

There are some videos either on youtube or another website that has the same type of thing. People would be in a room opposite another person, and would be talked into delivering them shocks. They could hear the person in the other room screaming, but they were stilled coerced into hitting the button. If I remember correctly only a few people opted out before getting to the highest possible shock.
 
  • #9
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The point of this show is not only to reproduce Milgram's experiment. This is the trivial part of the show, and was already known. But after the show, the same evening and the next day as well, a discussion takes place on modern evolution of television, such as the success of "reality shows". The creator of the show claims to be inspired from "the weakest link". The channel website also gathers reaction from various levels of expertise in this topic.

So basically, they do make quite some audience by reproducing the experiment, but that is not the most important point. This is just a clever mean to attain their goal. The most important part is that this experiment denounces the abusive powers of television for audience.
 
  • #10
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The point is that with a little persuasion, people can easily be motivated to torture others; even to point of hitting the victim with a potentially lethal shock - all for a game in this case.

If you read the wiki link that I provided, you will see that this plays on a famous experiment from the 1960's.
From Milgrim's conclusion (cited by wiki):

Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process. Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear, and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality, Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process. Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear, and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality, relatively few people have the resources needed to resist authority.[3]
"...relatively few people have the resources needed to resist authority."

Milgrim's experiment was conceived to find an answer to the question of why so many German's obeyed the Nazis:

The experiments began in July 1961, three months after the start of the trial of German Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann in Jerusalem. Milgram devised his psychological study to answer the question: "Was it that Eichmann and his accomplices in the Holocaust had mutual intent, in at least with regard to the goals of the Holocaust?" In other words, "Was there a mutual sense of morality among those involved?" Milgram's testing suggested that it could have been that the millions of accomplices were merely following orders, despite violating their deepest moral beliefs.
 
  • #11
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I'd like to take a few moments to reflect on the relation between this show and nazi camps, through the notion of "crime against humanity". Often camp survivors would relate horrible facts, but then would realize that the true horror was impossible to tell. The true horror of extermination camps would rather occur when inmates lost hope to the point that they gave up their humanity, and such situations could never be told, only experienced first hand or witnessed.

I am not saying reality television is a crime against humanity. I am saying that we often take very lightly the borderline game they play with human dignity. I think restricting one's perspective on Milgram's experiment here is really missing the essential point.
 
  • #12
Ivan Seeking
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I'd like to take a few moments to reflect on the relation between this show and nazi camps, through the notion of "crime against humanity". Often camp survivors would relate horrible facts, but then would realize that the true horror was impossible to tell. The true horror of extermination camps would rather occur when inmates lost hope to the point that they gave up their humanity, and such situations could never be told, only experienced first hand or witnessed.

I am not saying reality television is a crime against humanity. I am saying that we often take very lightly the borderline game they play with human dignity. I think restricting one's perspective on Milgram's experiment here is really missing the essential point.
A high school student once expressed the idea that shows like Jerry Springer's are the modern equivalent of an afternoon at the Colosium watching the lions have lunch.
 
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  • #13
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The point is that with a little persuasion, people can easily be motivated to torture others; even to point of hitting the victim with a potentially lethal shock - all for a game in this case.

If you read the wiki link that I provided, you will see that this plays on a famous experiment from the 1960's.
Another experiment, The Stanford Prison Experiment, actually inflicted moderate physical discomfort and extreme emotional discomfort. Needless to say the experiment ended early.

The prisoner group at times actually had bags over their heads. That sounds all too familiar.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=677084988379129606# [Broken]
 
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  • #14
Another experiment, The Stanford Prison Experiment, actually inflicted moderate physical discomfort and extreme emotional discomfort. Needless to say the experiment ended early.

The prisoner group at times actually had bags over their heads. That sounds all too familiar.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=677084988379129606# [Broken]
I can get behind treating volunteers as prisoners, even Gitmo style, for ****s and giggles. Maybe people will start to realize that the manner in which these people are treated is a rather serious concern.
 
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  • #15
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Most people assume that only the "sadistic fringe of society" is capable doing evil things like the Nazis concentration camps . In fact this was Milgram's hypothesis. But results of the experiment indicate that's not the case. Ordinary people, and almost everyone under the right circumstances can be turned into Nazis.

It follows that the Holocaust, genocide, and extermination of people is just a natural consequence of human psychology. History is written in blood, and mass murder from the earliest records. And by inductive reasoning genocides will reoccur in the future because human psychology doesn't change that fast.
 
  • #16
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In the Nuremberg documentary, we can contemplate German citizens brought to the camps at liberation to witness the horror organized by their government. They come in with a smile on their face. They leave in tears.

The hope of this show is to cause a shock raising the question of whether television has already gone too far. A documentary by the same creators as the show, analyzing 50 years of evolution of television, will be aired tonight, the day following this show.

There is always a minority of people refusing to obey blindly, and by constant actions they should eventually be able to lift other people's consciousness.
 
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