Solving Friction Problem with Masses m and M

  • Thread starter Peter Lauer
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In summary, the conversation discusses a scenario where a block of mass m is placed on top of another block of mass M and is pushed to the right by a force F. However, as the force increases, block m starts to slide to the left due to friction between the two blocks. The solution is given by the equations for friction and acceleration for both blocks. The confusion arises from Newton's third law, but it is explained that mass m is only moving to the left relative to mass M and is actually moving to the right with respect to the ground. The misunderstanding is cleared up and the conversation ends with a thank you for the explanation.
  • #1
Peter Lauer
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Hey guys, My first post, I'm not sure this is the right place to put my question...but here it goes:

A block of mass m stands on another block of mass M. Some force F starts pushing M to the right, initially both blocks move together then, as F increases the block with mass m starts to slide to the left. There is no friction between the floor and block M, just between M and m.
The solution is given by the equations :
Friction = ma
F-Friction = MA
a,and A are the accelerations for blocks m and M respectively.

So, I don’t understand why the block m slides to the left. Because by Newton’s third law, if block M is pushed by some force, the way I see it, friction pushes back, so M pushes m forward to the direction of force F,as m pushes back. So why mass m is moving backwards ? I'm pretty sure my application of the Third Law is wrong but why? The only way m could possibly go to the left, would be if M pushed m back then m would have no option but push M forward so the equations should be :
Friction = ma
F+Friction = MA
So what's wrong?
 
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  • #2
Peter Lauer said:
So, I don’t understand why the block m slides to the left. Because by Newton’s third law, if block M is pushed by some force, the way I see it, friction pushes back, so M pushes m forward to the direction of force F,as m pushes back. So why mass m is moving backwards ?
Mass m is only moving to the left with respect to mass M. With respect to the ground, it is of course being pushed to the right and thus moves to the right.
 
  • #3
Doc Al said:
Mass m is only moving to the left with respect to mass M. With respect to the ground, it is of course being pushed to the right and thus moves to the right.

Waw. I got it ! I was trying to think of it in respect to the moving block M, not considering that it isn't an inertial reference... THANKS for the answer, really helpful!
 

1. What is the formula for calculating friction force in a system with masses m and M?

The formula for calculating friction force in a system with masses m and M is F = μN, where F is the friction force, μ is the coefficient of friction, and N is the normal force between the two masses.

2. How do you determine the coefficient of friction for a given system?

The coefficient of friction can be determined by dividing the magnitude of the friction force by the magnitude of the normal force. This value can also be found in tables for common materials.

3. Can friction force be eliminated completely in a system with masses m and M?

No, friction force cannot be completely eliminated in a system with masses m and M. It is a fundamental force that exists whenever two surfaces are in contact with each other. However, it can be reduced by using materials with lower coefficients of friction or by applying a lubricant.

4. How does the mass of the objects affect the friction force in a system?

The mass of the objects does not directly affect the friction force in a system. However, the normal force between the two objects, which is dependent on their masses, does affect the friction force. A greater normal force will result in a greater friction force.

5. Are there any real-life applications for solving friction problems with masses m and M?

Yes, there are many real-life applications for solving friction problems with masses m and M. For example, engineers use friction calculations to design brakes for cars, determine the amount of force needed to move objects, and improve the efficiency of machines by reducing friction.

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