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From where come first magnet?

  1. Nov 3, 2009 #1
    If electricity possible to made only by using magnets (Lorence force) then how electricity was maded for creating with electromagnets the permanent magnets?
    Any history regards this?
    If magnets was taken from earth, then me bothering question how strong magnetic properties they have? And how many times now artificialy created magnet is stronger than the one discovered probably 100 and more years away of same mass?
    Why now all magnets are magnetized with electromagnets rather just using goted from earth or maybe first magnets (do not artificialy magneted) was from iron or from same matterial which now used in say speakers?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 3, 2009 #2

    Pythagorean

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    Not true. Electricity can be made using chemical potentials too (i.e., batteries). There's no magnets in thunderstorms either.
     
  4. Nov 3, 2009 #3
    Not true. Chemical potentials have magnetic propertys as does everything made up of protons and electrons and such. So do thunderstorms eg. Build up of negitive and positive charge in clouds and the ground.

    To answer the op question... The first magnet was probably a magnetic monopole and probably what the first thing in the universe was. Its possible the big bang was created by 2 monopoles of opposite charges meeting.
     
  5. Nov 3, 2009 #4
    This is a naturally occurring magnet.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loadstone" [Broken]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  6. Nov 3, 2009 #5
    To further answer your questions, natural occurring magnets (lodestone) have a very weak field.

    Man made magnets are much stronger and durable. They can also be shaped into a desired form.

    The more recent rare earth magnets are commonly used in computer hard drives.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neodymium_magnet
     
  7. Nov 3, 2009 #6
    But they only have magnetic properties because the charges are moving. As for monopoles, how could they exist without these charges first existing?

    lol "What came first, the electric force or the magnetic force?"
     
  8. Nov 3, 2009 #7
    I dont really believe monopoles existed. To answer your question what force came first I would say that they all came first at the same time.
     
  9. Nov 3, 2009 #8

    Pythagorean

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    I believe the OP is talking about magnets, not magnetic fields. We didn't use magnets (or even knowledge of magnetism) to make the first batteries. In the short year I studied lightning, none of the models ever brought up magnetism either. That's not the same as saying that magnetic fields aren't involved.

    My point was that magnetic fields aren't required to have an electric field. Of course, once you make use of the electric field, you are moving charge and a magnetic field is generated, but (at least in the classical view) the magnetic field isn't required for the electric field to exist; all that is required is charge.
     
  10. Nov 4, 2009 #9
    But I hardly believe that there can be any much stronger magnets than used in speakers (maybe maximum two times stronger, but not 10 or 100 times) and this lodestone from wikipedia looks prety similar strenght of magnetic field comparable to magnets in speakers, maybe even exactly the same magnetic strenght. So to me naturaly arising question: maybe it's not artificial power (electromagnet(s)) magnetizing say magnets in speakers, but they already have prety strong magnetic properties and electromagnets maybe just little bit helping to combine all those magnetic dusts (or somthing very similar) into one pease at high temperature. Because seems iron impossible to magnetize even close to magnetic power the same like in speakers magnets not matter with what electromagnet you trying to magnetize iron. So maybe it could mean that at lorence force all energy comes from permanent magnet or if you want to me to proof oposit then magnetize iron and get more electricity energy than was puted/inserted into this iron magnetization (with electromagnet).
     
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