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I From zero to infinity

  1. Nov 5, 2015 #1
    I read about a theory according to which the sum of everything the universe is made of is likely to be zero.
    For example, forces cancel each other, positive and negative energy cancel each other, and so on.
    Is there some support for this theory, or is it generally dismissed?
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 6, 2015 #2
    As far as matter & anti-matter, it is my understanding that they would balance each other out, but not all forces cancel. As far as we know, gravity is a one-way force.
  4. Nov 6, 2015 #3
    But wouldn't gravity be somehow "cancelled" by the cancellation of matter?

    I am going to add another question to my first one:

    In its most primordial state (or fundamental state, I am not sure what the right terms are), can we say that the universe is made of energy, upon which forces are acting?
    Or is there something else and what is it?
  5. Nov 6, 2015 #4
    Actually, I was mistaken. There is more matter than anti-matter.


    And no, not really.. Gravity cannot be cancelled in the sense that while the electromagnetic force has attractive and repulsive properties, gravity has only attractive properties. And yes, we can. We can say this because energy = matter, and forces act upon matter.
  6. Nov 6, 2015 #5
    What I mean is that without matter, gravity would disappear, rather than being cancelled, because gravity is linked to mass, which in turn is linked to matter.
  7. Nov 6, 2015 #6
    Yeah, but there is matter.. Without matter, none of these forces would work..
  8. Nov 6, 2015 #7
    As far as I understand, the reason for an excess of matter over anti-matter is still subject to debate, and research.
    Yet, wouldn't an excess of matter over anti-matter imply that a finite amount of both was created?
    Otherwise, if matter and anti-matter were created in infinite quantities, how could there have been more of one than the other?
  9. Nov 6, 2015 #8


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    It is expected that matter and anitmatter were created in equal amounts in the big bang. Subsequent interactions tended to favor the production of matter over antimatter (for example, a certain particle preferentially decayed into matter over antimatter) leading to the present-day asymmetry.

    There could be infinite amounts of both if the universe is infinite; however, all we can measure are abundances in our observable universe. That's why cosmologists measure energy densities.
  10. Nov 6, 2015 #9
    Thank you for this input.
    Back to the title of the thread, how can an infinite universe be created from zero, zero being only a way of describing it right before the BB.
    To simplify, let's consider only numbers.
    Starting with zero, one can create an infinite quantity of numbers, 1, 2, 3, 100 and so on, as long as one also creates - 1, - 2, -3 , - 100 and so on, so that the sum total of the numbers created always remains equal to zero.
    Such a creation is instantaneous, there was zero and in no time there is an infinite quantity of numbers.
    Yet, as a whole nothing has really been created, as would have been the case if, say, only positive numbers had been created.

    An observer can then find out that there is much more complexity than what appears at first sight, that these numbers can be manipulated, dissected, transformed in multiple ways, that one can start building equations with them, in the process discovering a whole (mathematical) universe.

    Now, if the numbers were replaced with the energy and forces created with the BB, and that this energy and forces were then transformed into more and more complex things, yet cancelling each other on a global scale, an infinite universe could be created out of nothing, with its total content amounting to nothing.
  11. Nov 6, 2015 #10


    Staff: Mentor

    Please give a reference, and please review the PF rules for acceptable references. There are lots of pop science "theories" out there that aren't valid.

    Until an appropriate reference is given, this thread is closed. Brunolem33, if you have references, please PM me.
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