Further maths in 1 year

This is mainly for UK people:
I am currently studying AS level maths, physics, chemistry and biology. Next year I am going to drop biology and take up further maths. But I dont know whether I will be able to do the further maths A level in 1 year. I have done Edexcel C1 and M1 and will do C2 in the summer. To do further maths AS next year i will have to do 9 modules: C3, C4, FP1, M2 in january, and FP2 and FP3 in june. but to do the full A level I will do S1 in jan and S2 and D2 in june. Ill do all the pure modules as I want to apply to Oxford for Physics.

Any advice on whether I would be able to do the full further maths A level in 1 year? Bearing in mind I will need an A in maths, further maths, physics and chemistry.
cheers.
(I got 99% in C1 and 95% in M1 to give you an idea of what i have already done)

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cristo
Staff Emeritus
I'm not sure what C and FP stand for (when I did A levels, they were numbered differently). At a guess, I'd say C stood for calculus and FP stood for foundations of pure maths.

Anyway, if the only difference between the AS and the A level is doing an extra two stats and one discrete exam, then I think you should go for it. They're generally the easiest ones, however you'll have a fair bit of work to do! Besides, if you mess them up, you can just ignore them and take the AS qualification (or at least that's what you used to be able to do).

cristo
Staff Emeritus
Bearing in mind I will need an A in maths, further maths, physics and chemistry.
No you don't; you need AAA including A's in maths and physics. It doesn't say anything about further maths!

The C is for 'Core Maths', which is foundation pure.
FP is for 'Further Pure' which is like a trickier pure maths.

I'm doing AS maths this year and A2 maths next. Also applying to do just Further Maths AS next year. I'm not applying for Oxbridge or anything so just the AS should see me through.

I read somewhere that to do Maths at Cambridge, you need at least Further Maths at AS level. Nothing about A2, so that makes it slightly easier to get in.

But I can't really advise you since I haven't done Further maths. But I think with hard work you'd be able to pull it off.

I hope you manage to get into Oxford!

cristo
Staff Emeritus
The C is for 'Core Maths', which is foundation pure.
FP is for 'Further Pure' which is like a trickier pure maths.

Ahh right, ok. In my day we just had P1-n (I can't remember how many there were!), which stood for pure maths. I think they probably changed it from pure to core, since the "pure" maths in the early a level maths modules isn't really pure maths in the conventional sense, but is more like an introduction to calculus.

I didn't do further maths either, and it didn't affect me. It just meant that in the first term at university I had to do some work when other people didn't!

thanks for the replys, i really appreciate it.
I know that I dont really need A's in all my subjects but it really depends on what offers universities make, depending on which subjects I need.
My head of maths basically said that it would be hard work but we can teach you it, so not all that helpful on my decision.
Is there anyone with any first hand experience with further maths that can comment on how hard it is for someone who is good at maths (but no genius!).
thanks again

i'm doing further maths at the moment - last year i did maths A level and this year I'm doing FM A level. So I have twice as much maths as everyone else.
At the start of last year, the workload took a bit of getting used to - remember, you're doing 2 years' worth of work in half the time, and you need to get good at it quickly. Will you be taught in a class, or individually?
You don't have to be a genius, but as with normal maths your algebra needs to be up to scratch. FP2 has a lot of calculus in it, which will be useful in the future. FP1 is a good starting module, not too difficult, but FP3 is the killer one for me - more advanced complex numbers stuff.
Something else I would add is it's probably a good idea to do as much mechanics as possible. Stats modules are generally considered to be easier, but they're really boring i reckon and the mechanics will help you at uni. Also there's a lot of pure maths in mechanics so it helps you to practice it.

I would say, if you're set on going to Oxford it'd be a good idea to try for the A level cos apparently it makes it a lot easier for the first term at least. It won't be easy, but as long as you have someone you can ask questions (there'll be lots of them!), you could manage it. It's a lot of work.

When I did my A-levels, it was the first year of modulisation -- I was also doing an AS in Geology (pretty much for fun). However, I dropped this to take a couple of modules in further maths.

(Back then it was P1-4, M1-4, and S1-4, I think...)

Basically, I scored high in them all -- pretty much close to 100%, so have my A-level in normal maths plus an AS level in further maths. The latter is equivalent to a D -- due to not taking 4 modules, so I never included it in my grades.

So... I'd say it's easy to do further maths in a year -- particularly, if you find the "normal" maths very easy

gavf -

a few pointers to note-

1. Further maths- you will cover all this eventually in your first year degree (if you are doing Physics degree). As many students that do a degree in physics dont have further maths, but only have as maths.

2. If you are going to do to further maths bear in mind (dont bother with Statistics modules and decion modules at all).

3. Only do the Core, Further and mechanics modules.

4. End of the day even if you have as further maths you should be content with as you would have covered most of your first year degree of physics.

5. excelent first year results, keep up the good work (do as many pure and mechanics modules now), as when you do the work later on, you will find it a breeze at degree level.

6. End of the day you will come back to it in your degree, but like a revison course. If you are gona do a degree in physics my advice drop A2 bio and chemistry. chemiisty your wasting our time, would be WAY BETTER TO DO further maths.

7. DO MATHS, PHYSICS AND FURTHER MATHS A2.

8. END OF IT ALL YOU WILL HAVE , AS BIO, AS CHEM,
AND 3 FULL ALEVLES IN MATHS PHYSICS FURTHER MATHS.

9. I Cannot emphasise enough DONT DO A2 CHEM AND BIO.

ask anyone this .........doing A PHYSICS DEGREE, which i am doing currently.

10. ENJOY...........COZ U will enjoy physics at degree leve....

IMY786

further maths diffciulty u wanted to know-
well its equaivlent to first year degree in maths/ physics.

topics mainly that are new- complex numbers , eigenvetors, advanced differtiation, integration, series (taylors...etc). this is all on further maths modules.

If you are gona do degree in physics. Try and get all MECHANICS MODULES DONE. As this is the basic part of physics degree, and you will need to know this stuff..they will teach you at very fast pace at uni. So it would be better to get all Mechanics mdoules done. If you can handle this, very likely you can handle your first year degree .

cristo
Staff Emeritus
further maths diffciulty u wanted to know-
well its equaivlent to first year degree in maths/ physics.

Can you just clarify this. Are you saying that the content in a further maths a level is equivalent to the content in the first year of a maths degree?

Can you just clarify this. Are you saying that the content in a further maths a level is equivalent to the content in the first year of a maths degree?
Yeah -- that's not exactly true.

For one, the poster says not to take stats -- whereas, a core component of the first year of a maths degree would contain probability and stats (I would imagine a physics degree would too).

Likewise, A-level maths contains no proofs -- university core subjects certainly introduce "pure" maths.

In this respect, A-level is more like the maths part of engineering/physics uni courses.

Also, it's worth keeping in mind that A-level is taught pretty methodical -- working towards exams and learning techniques, even in further maths. Don't think because you're completely proficient at A-level you'll find the first year of uni a breeze -- a lot of people find their first years difficult because they can't adjust to a different style of learning/teaching.

However, you should still do further maths -- ime, it's somewhat expected these days for courses which involve maths.

(w.r.t. chemistry -- I did this as my 3rd A-level; it was fun but I've never used it.)

cristo
Staff Emeritus
9. I Cannot emphasise enough DONT DO A2 CHEM AND BIO.

ask anyone this .........doing A PHYSICS DEGREE, which i am doing currently.

The OP says he intends to drop biology. I don't agree with you here when you say to drop chemistry.

Firstly, if the OP is interested in chemistry, then it will do no harm for him to continue studying it at A-level-- in fact, it will show that he has breadth, and can excel in more than just maths! Secondly, A level chemistry can be useful when studying some of the later physics modules, and it has practical elements, which will help enhance his practical skills.

I would say this the other way around; if he had to drop one out of further maths and chemistry, I would pick further maths to drop, since you will be taught this in the first year of a physics degree anyway.

Anyway, the question is "should I take further maths a level in one year," and does not mention his intent to drop chemistry, so this is somewhat off-topic.

cristo
Staff Emeritus
Yeah -- that's not exactly true.

I know; that's why I was asking him to clarify. I would have said pretty much the same thing as you have above-- the content in further maths a level is not equivalent to a first year university maths degree!

In addition to what you said as far as I recall, there is no linear algebra in further maths. Also, the mechanics that I learnt in my first year maths module was far harder than the mechanics in a level; it ended with a few weeks introducing special relativity!!

further maths = 1st year physics degree..........

and defintie u should drop chemistry , as like someone said perviosly it was fun.......but never used it.........y waste time on it...when u cna increase knowledge on maths/ physics.

k...first year might not be a breze....it would make it that much easier thoug....if u DID DO FURTHER MATHS...

do further mahts

drop chem and bio

cristo
Staff Emeritus
y waste time on it...when u cna increase knowledge on maths/ physics.
Because it might actually be interesting, and a welcome break from maths!
k...first year might not be a breze....it would make it that much easier thoug....if u DID DO FURTHER MATHS...
If you actually read his first post, he lists some modules that he's taking for the AS further maths then goes on to say that if he wants the A level further maths he only needs to take two stats modules and a discrete module. It may be good for him to have further maths a level on his record, but these three modules will not help him (much) in the maths part of a physics degree!

further maths = 1st year physics degree..........
Perhaps you should reread mine and cristo's responses.

AND CRISTO IF U READ MY POST.......

iv advised him not to do stats..and decions maths....

iv told him to do mechincs..module..he should stil consider..

cristo..u aint even sure how many maths moduesl u need to know..as u r used to the old system....

read my post...and he will go for my decsion WATCH........ITS THE BEST ONE..ASK ANY UNI PRFESOR..PHYSICS DEGREE STUDENT

cristo
Staff Emeritus
AND CRISTO IF U READ MY POST.......
Calm down; no need to shout at me!
iv advised him not to do stats..and decions maths....
Which are the modules that he says he needs to do to obtain a further maths a level as opposed to an as level

iv told him to do mechincs..module..he should stil consider..
Perhaps his school do not have the teachers to teach him mechanics modules past M2! Many schools pick the modules on offer to students by looking at the teachers they have in their department. If, for example, they have all specialised in pure or stats at uni, then they will not have the knowledge to teach mechanics modules past M2.
cristo..u aint even sure how many maths moduesl u need to know..as u r used to the old system....
I'm just going by what he says in his original post.

read my post...and he will go for my decsion WATCH........ITS THE BEST ONE..ASK ANY UNI PRFESOR..PHYSICS DEGREE STUDENT
Right, cos this is now a competition!

I'm only advising what I would do! I quite enjoyed my chemistry a level, and not having further maths didn't hold back my studies for a maths degree!

edit: Have you read J77's above post? Also, are you studying for a physics degree at the moment? Did you do further maths a level?

Again thanks for all the responses, theyve all been interesting and I will take your opinions into account when making my final decision.

cristo - my school does teach at least up to M3 (they will teach M2 & M3 for the jan exams), however due to the large number of pure maths modules that I would have to take in january, the time and difficulty of M3 will prevent me from taking it. the stats and decision modules are really just being used to make up the numbers for a full A level, and apparently they are relatively easy; so yeah those 3 may just be for it to look good on my record.

dt19 - Ill be taught mainly in a class however there may be only 2 people in some of the classes. How hard do you think doing C3, C4 and FP1 at the same time will be?

imy796 - I take your point that chem may not be all that useful.

J77 - I do enjoy chemistry and it I think itll be a welcome break from the maths and physics! yeah and that similar to my opinion of further maths, that at the best uni's they may sort of expect further maths, the people that have gotten to Oxford from my school to do physics had further maths, so it makes you wonder...

thanks

well if you know FP1, its the basis of the other pure modules, so it should be ok, but saying that, there are topics in c3 and c4 were FP1 doesnt cover at all.....eg logs...its upto you ....do only that much u can cope with...

you also dont want to do too much and then overall get a poor grade...

you don't need to do further maths to do physics at degreea level , you will learn that stuff anyway , however it would probably help alot.Alhough they might mostly focus on your maths and physics grade , mostly..i didnt do furthermath so im not sure abpout the f's and c's but getting above 90 in m1 could be a sign you will do the sdmae in m2.

I just got my AS level results back and I received an A in Maths, B in ICT and E in Economics. As Im only doing 3 subjects I need to repeat Economics but Im finding that really hard. Would I be able to continue Maths and ICT for A2 and drop economics and take on Further Maths for AS level only and would this limit my chances of getting into a good university??

I would like to do this as my maths has improved greatly and i have a good tutor. Hope to hear from someone soon as I need to make a decision as soon as possible

Regards,

Ramsu

cristo
Staff Emeritus
Would I be able to continue Maths and ICT for A2 and drop economics and take on Further Maths for AS level only and would this limit my chances of getting into a good university??

I don't think so: most (good) universities offer places based on 3 A level grades, not 2 A levels and 2 AS levels.

I had made a similar decision years ago (I am doing a graduate degree in math now, that's some years ...) when I was taking STPM (Malaysian exam equivalent to A-level). I dropped chemistry in my second year to take up further maths. Unlike your case however I did not have teacher to guide me (since I was the only student taking Further Maths) the school did not really have enough resources to spare. So I did everything via self-study. And I managed a 'C'. I did not regret my decision because I learn a lot of stuff, both mathematical and non-mathematical skill such as self-discipline. I am sure with dedication and someone to guide you it is possible to pull an 'A'. Good luck.

I have a business in Japan with my second wife who stands out as my representative, I cooperate with NTT Japan, biglobe server, and none of them know it was me standing behind until they investigated the case of mind-boggling [simulation of political events in the Japan while I am sitting in US]. I went back to US school some time later, I am taking advanced applied math. Been over a year since I came back.
I look like a ****ing crazy dummy sitting infront of my computer and waiting for nothing. Just wanted to pass the course this next spring, if not perhaps I have to wait for another next spring, because I need to be qualified math skills

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Ok, I have decided to do both AS and A2 Further Maths starting in September. so that is
FP1, FP2, FP3, S2, M2, D1. Or could i do D2 instead of M2 if i wish or is there no such thing. It will be tough doing 6 modules of further maths in one year aswell as A2 Maths modules C3, C4 and S1. Do I have a choice of the old specification if i wish as there are many past papers on the internet of the old specification or should I go for the new specification which is easier but has no past papers???

Please help and answer my questions. I have two maths tutors and in february AS level mocks i scored a U and was advised to drop AS maths, i hired the tutors and now I have scored an A for AS level maths, I think I am ready for Further maths now and feel that I can do this as Im doing Maths and ICT with the intention of dropping my third AS level subject Economics as I failed that and would like to undergo Further maths now for AS and A2 from september instead of economics.

Regards,

Ramsu

cristo
Staff Emeritus
Ok, I have decided to do both AS and A2 Further Maths starting in September. so that is
FP1, FP2, FP3, S2, M2, D1. Or could i do D2 instead of M2 if i wish or is there no such thing. It will be tough doing 6 modules of further maths in one year aswell as A2 Maths modules C3, C4 and S1. Do I have a choice of the old specification if i wish as there are many past papers on the internet of the old specification or should I go for the new specification which is easier but has no past papers???
Discrete is probably easier than mechanics, so may be a better choice. Did you enjoy M1? I don't know about the specifications, sorry, but I would presume you have to do the new ones.

Please help and answer my questions. I have two maths tutors and in february AS level mocks i scored a U and was advised to drop AS maths, i hired the tutors and now I have scored an A for AS level maths, I think I am ready for Further maths now and feel that I can do this as Im doing Maths and ICT with the intention of dropping my third AS level subject Economics as I failed that and would like to undergo Further maths now for AS and A2 from september instead of economics.
I'm going to be entirely honest, here. If I sound like I'm being pompous, then please accept my apologies in advance, but I can't think of another way of saying this.

If you are relying on two tutors to raise your grade from a U in AS maths to an A, then you should probably think long and hard whether maths is the right degree choice for you. Supposing you do indeed manage to get through your A levels, and obtain a good score in both maths and further maths, you need to think about how difficult a degree in maths is going to be for you. When you get to university you will have little to no private, one on one tuition, and will be, basically, on your own. Now, whether or not you will succeed, I don't know, but from what you say, I would tend to think that you don't (or can't) cope without one on one tuition. Couple this with the fact that the jump between A level maths and university level maths is enormous, I think, as I said above, that you should really consider this deeply.

well you dont even know me and i think im right in saying that going from a U to an A with tutors is an amazing achievement in AS level maths. I dont want your honesty if your telling me that you think I'll struggle. With tutors I managed an A. I know its going to be hard but I am not looking for a Maths degree in university anyway, i simply want another A Level instead of economics and I enjoy maths now.

Sorry but I dont think you know what you're talking about because FP1 stands for Further Pure maths not Foundation Pure and D1 is Decision Maths not Discrete..

cristo
Staff Emeritus
well you dont even know me and i think im right in saying that going from a U to an A with tutors is an amazing achievement in AS level maths.
Of course it is, and I didn't say anything to the contrary?!
I dont want your honesty if your telling me that you think I'll struggle.
So.. you post on a forum asking for advice, but then only want to listen to advice if it agrees with what you think? That seems like a waste of time on all parts, doesn't it?
With tutors I managed an A. I know its going to be hard but I am not looking for a Maths degree in university anyway, i simply want another A Level instead of economics and I enjoy maths now.
So you plan on going to university? If so, since you are taking maths and further maths then I'm not sure what you intend to study at university if not maths?!
Sorry but I dont think you know what you're talking about because FP1 stands for Further Pure maths not Foundation Pure and D1 is Decision Maths not Discrete..
This thread is 18 months old. My misinterpretation of 'FP1' was corrected in the first couple of posts in this thread. Discrete and decision are terms used interchangably in A level maths syllabi.

ok so here goes...

I want to study Computer Science > Software Engineering in University. I have A in maths, B in ICT in AS Level so far. I need a third and I could either repeat Economics AS and do Economics A2 but I really struggle with this subject. I would like to do Further Maths, FP1, FP2, FP3, M2, S2, D1 this year. I just wanted some advice thats all and I know its a tough course but I find economics too hard at the moment and ive already done M1 so M2 will be similar (obviously harder), S1 im doing so S2 shouldnt be too hard (or should it???) and FP1, FP2, FP3 i have no idea how hard they will be but Im ready for it and my tutors are both supporting me, I should be able to do this in a year shouldnt I???

I will be at a better position with A levels in Maths, Further Maths and ICT for a software engineering degreem will i not?

Regards,

R

cristo
Staff Emeritus
I will be at a better position with A levels in Maths, Further Maths and ICT for a software engineering degreem will i not?

Yup, further maths will probably be better than economics for software engineering. Since you're not intending on studying maths at university, then the comments I made above aren't entirely relevant. One thing that you might want to start doing is looking at universities' websites to see what the entry requirements for a degree are. Here is, entirely randomly picked, Birmingham's entry requirements: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/se.php [Broken]

Good luck!

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