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Future Cars?

  1. Aug 5, 2006 #1
    hey.,.. im just wondering wat the future is for cars and petrol?

    are we gona have electric cars or waterfueled cars?

    wats happening next?

    how long til petrol runs out?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Aug 5, 2006 #2

    russ_watters

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    Electric, then hydrogen fuel cells. Gas won't "run out" for another century, but it'll keep getting more expensive until then.
     
  4. Aug 5, 2006 #3

    brewnog

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    More Diesels, more biodiesel. When oil prices start to seriously rise, the American market will wake up to Diesel.

    Then, homogeneous charge compression ignition, potentially using some kind of biofuel once they work out what the combustion system will be.

    The internal combustion engine is here to stay for a lot longer than most people realise, chiefly because petrol and Diesel are so hard to beat in terms of energy density.


    Oh, and water isn't a fuel.
     
  5. Aug 5, 2006 #4
    Why can't water be considered a fuel?
    After all, gasoline and such petrols require external energy to release or utilize its chemical fuel potential. Can't the same be said for water?
     
  6. Aug 6, 2006 #5
    No, because water, unlike petrol, is not a source of energy. However It can be used to store energy by splitting it to hydrogen and oxygen.
     
  7. Aug 7, 2006 #6
    humm.dont know yet maybe we gonna have electric,hha
     
  8. Aug 7, 2006 #7

    russ_watters

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    That statement is incorrect. Once the activation energy is overcome, burning a fuel is self-sustaining. Water is not a fuel, it is a combustion product. It is an ash. "Burning it" requires first a complete reversal of the combustion process that created it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2006
  9. Aug 8, 2006 #8
    Water could be used as in a source of Hydrogens though.
    Burning hydrogen would be ideal, because all that would be produced is water vapor.

    Has anybody seen "Who Killed the Electric Car" yet?
     
  10. Aug 8, 2006 #9
    Yes, I stand corrected. Water is not a fuel, but a fuel source.
    That's what I meant, but I was still wrong in my original statements.
     
  11. Aug 16, 2006 #10

    brewnog

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    It's no more a source of fuel than a flat battery.
     
  12. Aug 16, 2006 #11

    DaveC426913

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    or the ashes in a firepit.

    As pointed out, water is the end-product of a reaction. You cannot simply start the process with a kick and let it run. (Thought exercise: what process is it that you would perform on water that would cause it to release more energy than you put into it?)

    You have to - like a flat battery (or, at least in principle ashes from a fire) - actually put all the energy in.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2006
  13. Sep 7, 2006 #12
    I don't think anybody truly knows what the future will be. At the moment there seems to be a move towards hybrids, and in the future the hybrids could move off in some other direction. There are probably several possibilities. Hydrogen fuel cells is one. The only other thing that comes to mind are fly wheels. Special paint that made cars have zero wind resistance would be nice. So would super efficient braking return-energy.
     
  14. Oct 21, 2006 #13
    There is a test trial in a texas farm community regarding using pig manuvere for fuel. Basically, they take alot of pig poop and put it in high pressurized cylinders that generate fuel substance that can be used in vehicles.
     
  15. Oct 21, 2006 #14
    Getting back to the water cars. Correct me if im wrong but isnt the energy reqired to separate the oxygen and the hydrogen a lot more than you get out of burning the hydrogen? Which makes them completely inefficient. Not that gasoline cars arent with their 30%-35% efficiency..pathetic all the good energy gone to heat....
     
  16. Oct 21, 2006 #15

    DaveC426913

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    You're missing the point.

    Q: How much energy does it take to charge a drycell battery?
    A: Who cares? All I care about is how small it is and how much energy I can carry with me.

    Likewise, damn the efficiency - you do all the charging outside the car and store the energy as compactly as possible inside the car.
     
  17. Oct 21, 2006 #16
    By charging i assume you mean batteries, right?
     
  18. Oct 21, 2006 #17

    DaveC426913

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    No. Hydrogen.

    You take the water, and store energy in it by splitting it into H and O. You bring the H with you and, by combining it with O, you release that energy again.

    The point is, it doesn't matter how much energy it takes to store it in the first place, since you do that at the pump/garage/whatever.

    See, the equivalent ICE/gasoline question would be "isn't a huge amount of energy expended drilling for the gasoline? That's very inefficient."
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2006
  19. Oct 21, 2006 #18
    I would say that the focus will be to move away from fossil-fuels towards bio-fuels as the next major step. The engine conversions required are not onerous & can be implemented cost-effectively by vehicle manufacturers. Folks can also make a steady income stream from growing the crops used for the manufacture of these bio-fuels.

    Fuel-cell & electric cars have problems when it comes to the support infrastructures needed to support these vehicles. The up-front costs are enormous.

    Hybrid vehicles as in engine-generator coupled systems are a useful fuel-saving exercsie, but they dramatically raise the complexity of maintaining these vehicles & probably up-front costs.

    With electrical vehicles, all that you are doing is transferring the pollution generation from the vehicle, back to the power station.

    Generating the hydrogen requirements to supply a world of fuel-cell vehicles will be very problematic & expensive in the short term.
     
  20. Oct 22, 2006 #19

    Sorry i got confused, my bad.
     
  21. Oct 28, 2006 #20
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