Game of Thrones is overrated

  • Thread starter Jow
  • Start date
  • #51
946
64
Personally i really enjoyed the books (maybe except the fourth one) i gave a chance to the series as well... i only watched the first two, but it hasnt really grasped me.
Vikings has grasped me.
 
  • #52
1,105
25
The Wire is the greatest TV series every made. Starts a little slow to set up the characters and setting, but if you can sit through season 1, you'll be rewarded.
 
  • #53
Pythagorean
Gold Member
4,291
276
The Qarth storyline is the weakest part of her story unfortunately. The writing seems a bit off there, and maybe her acting too.


I was thinking about this watching the follow up episode. The dialog itself is a major component of the problem. When she starts raging and making demands and threatening to lay waste, the way the rest of the canon works.... she would be killed. Yet she seems to get her way. Of course, dragons are power sought after... but still, you'd think there'd be enough moogles that they'd want to kill her anyway to remove her threat potential. You could also argue that things are different in the eastern continent, where she is and mystical things like dragons are well respected.
 
  • #55
9
2
Everything you said in your original posts were just your opinions. It isn't overrated, you just didn't like it. It is well acted, well written, the sets and costumes looks great, the special effects are great, etc...

Learn what words mean before you use them. Whether or not you like it is not the same thing as its quality. Rush is a phenomenally talented band with near perfect technical musicianship and yet I still hate their music. And I'm sure that bottle of fancy vodka is real top quality stuff but that doesn't mean I don't think it tastes like crap.
 
  • Like
Likes Battlemage!
  • #56
294
44
2) Dickens would often take a morally good character who wasn't extremely interesting on his/her own and surround them with extremely dynamic characters. It seems to me that this show takes a basically good and honourable character (Ned) who isn't very interesting on his own and surrounds him with even duller characters. In fact many of them (ie: Geoffrey, Robert, the blonde Queen, Ned's daughter who plays with swords and the sword master) are so archetypal that they border on cliche. How many times in other works of fiction have we met the eccentric master, the girl who doesn't want to follow the traditional path for girls, the bratty prince who has too much power, the scheming Queen and the fat and lazy King. They none of them are original. As well, even the characters who may not be as cliched as the others are rather boring and two dimensional. With the exception of the blonde Khaleesi none of them go through any sort of character development throughout the entire season.

Gonna have to disagree on this big time. What follows are spoilers that show how utterly blurry the line between good and evil characters are in this story (something that would require extended viewing to see as these characters develop and some change drastically over time. Unfortunately the careful building of the plot requires much more than viewing one or two seasons to see these characters change and develop.).

•Jamie Lannister, the guy who pushes Bran out of the window in season 1, starts out as a selfish arrogant typical villain. Later in the show he is captured by Brianne, and the two are in turn captured by Bolton men (who were vassals to the "good guys"). Contrary to his normal characteristics, he uses his status as a noble to risk his own safety to save his first captor from being raped, convincing the Boltons that she'd be worth more alive. They decide not to rape her, but chop off Jamie's sword hand as punishment.

You'd expect this to make him hate Brianne, but later in he jumps into a pit to save her from a kodiac bear despite his condition. Around that time it is discovered that the only reason he stabbed the Mad King in the back was because it saved thousands of lives. So he does a dishonorable act that haunts his reputation for the rest of his live to save thousands of others. Meanwhile the "good guy" King deliberately makes Jamie stand guard in his chambers whenever the king cheated on his wife (Jamie's sister). He becomes more than a villain, and is shown to be a somewhat tortured soul who adopts the evil persona as a defense mechanism.

In any case, Jamie becomes a "good guy," an anti-hero. BUT NOT TO BE OUTDONE, as soon as Jamie makes it home to his sister/lover he RAPES her right next to their dead son's body. Now he is back to being a despicable villain. His character continues to bounce around the line of good and evil from that moment forward.


•Tyrion Lannister (the dwarf) starts out as an arrogant but entertaining letcher. Later, he becomes the tragic victim/hero who saves the day despite the constant attacks he faces from all sides. He combats the evil King Joffery at every corner. So far the typical unappreciated hero, right?

But then he STRANGLES HIS LOVER TO DEATH and murders his own father! You see his lover felt betrayed by him when he tried to send her away for her own protection, so she lied in court to convict him of a murder he did not commit. Later after he escapes his cell, he finds her in his father's chambers, indicating she was using his father to try to continue her ascension among the nobility. So he promptly stranglers her to death both from rage/hurt and fear at being caught. He looks devastated emotionally after it, showing that he didn't suddenly become evil. But he committed evil nonetheless, and from that moment he could no longer be considered a pure "good guy." Shortly after he murders his father for both sentencing him to die and sleeping with his former lover. He's a murderer now.


•Let's move on to Tyrion's father, Tywin. By any measure he's a villain, yet if you examine his motivations and actions themselves, they are always for two purposes: 1- the survival of his family and 2- the greater good. The Red Wedding, where most of the Stark leadership is brutally murdered (including Robb's unborn child), was orchestrated by Tywin. EVIL! You say. But as Twyin put it, how many tens of thousands of lives were saved as a result of the 30 or so murdered at the Red Wedding? Tywin is a total jerk, and he's a murderer, but his intentions have never ever been evil for its own sake. Every evil act he committed was intended to bring about a greater good. And of course he ends up murdered by his own son.

• What about Dany, the presumptive hero who will use her dragons to save the world? She goes around freeing slaves, but she also CRUCIFIED a hundred people. Her dragons have burned children alive. She always has a satisfied grin those times she has participated in burning someone alive (and there have been several instances). Her heart is mostly good, but whether deliberately or not she has caused multitudes of deaths, including innocents.

• And what about the Children of the Forrest, those elf-like creatures helping Bran escape the wights attacking him? Well wouldn't you know that THEY CREATED THE WHITE WALKERS as a weapon of mass destruction to use against humans! Oops, it turns out they couldn't control them. But these supposedly "pure" creatures are the very reason all of humanity is in danger.

• And let's examine the Wildling Thormond Giantsbane. This guy is clearly a hero, helping Jon Snow fight the White Walkers and their Wights, and showing the steadfast loyalty of the main hero's sidekick you see in so many fantasy tropes... Except he also led raids against civilians, murdering even children, in an effort to weaken he Night's Watch's defenses. Good guy? Sure. Villain? I can think of no scenario in which murdering children doesn't make you a villain. He is obviously both. He started as a villain and has changed into a hero.

• Speaking of killing children, what about Stannis Baratheon? He is the hero that saved the Night's Watch from the Wildlings, and who vowed to fight the White Walkers, but he has also burnt hundreds of people alive to appease a god he doesn't even really believe in. What's worse, he even burnt his own daughter alive, standing by while she screamed for help. His wife hung herself that night. Is he a hero? Is he a villain? He is neither or he is both.

• And if we're going to talk about Stannis, we need to talk about his priestess Melisandre. She is the one who convinced Stannis to burn so many people, including his own daughter. She is responsible for many horrific deaths. And yet, she has always been motivated by the survival of the human race. Her black magic, as evil as it is, has always been a means to accomplish a much greater ends: stopping the White Walkers from destroying all of humanity. She's also responsible for saving Jon Snow, a pivotal "good guy."

• Even Jon Snow, the most stereotypical hero in the entire show, has proven to be an oath breaker, and has allowed his emotion to influence an execution he carried out (of Janos Slynt).

• Then you have Theon, the ward/hostage of the Starks. He grows up as Robb's brother, but eventually his loyalties between his family and the Starks are tested, and he betrays Robb. He executes one of the men who raised him (the sword master), and burns two little boys to death as an object lesson in obedience for the people of Winterfell. Later he is captured and brutally tortured and disfigured. He becomes a servant to his torturer, and betrays his sister-in-all-but-name as she tries to escape the nightly raping that Theon's tortuerer subjects her to. But later he is responsible for her escape and is willing to sacrifice himself to make sure she gets away. Later, when he returns home, he rejects his own birthright in favor of his sister's, showing his love and loyalty.


• What about Cersei? She helped engineer Ned's destruction, but her motivation was nothing but a mother's love. She committed murder to save her children. Would she have done those things if Ned hadn't stumbled upon the truth that her children were born of incest? No. She would have continued being a somewhat selfish but mostly lawful character. Of course if she hadn't been sleeping with her brother to begin with none of this would have mattered.

• Even Joffery, the sadistic incest born King has a strong sense of duty. As warped as his mind is, he has a sort of real affection for Margery, since she comes across as the perfect duty bound queen. He is clearly only a small line away from pure evil, but even he isn't entirely that way.

• Caitlyn Stark, the good wife of Ned, and doting mother... The woman who punished and hated an innocent child his entire life because her husband claimed him as his own bastard. She even prayed for him to die once, and the boy got sick unto near death. At that point guilt made her pray that he lived, promising to treat him like her own son if the gods saved him, and of course he did survive. Did she honor her promise? Nope. She still treated him with coldness and contempt until the day he left to join the Night's Watch.

• Alliser Thorne, sword master of the Night's Watch, was a bully who especially hated Jon Snow. He had murderous rage toward the Wildlings and treated the young recruits with contempt. But his contempt was for the purpose of hardening them so they could eventually fight for and protect the kingdoms. Was it an act? No, he was a contemptible bastard. But his purpose was always to protect the realm. Good guy? Bad guy? Again, the line is blurred.

• Even absolute scum like Crastor have reasonable motivations for their evil. Crastor married his own daughters and sacrificed his sons to the White Walkers. He was clearly evil. But he routinely helped keep the Night's Watch Rangers alive beyond the wall, and his sacrificed sons kept the White Walkers from killing all his wives/daughters.

• Which brings me to the White Walkers, those evil ice-litch necromancers who apparently are hell bent on destroying humanity. We don't know much about them or their motivations yet, but we do know the first of them was taken prisoner and brutally changed from a man into a White Walker by the Children of the Forrest. Could their motive be revenge? If so, is that strictly speaking pure evil? Until more information is given it cannot be known, but I promise you it will not be a Lord of the Rings Orcs thing.

I could continue for a very long while. There are so many shades of gray in this show that I could spend all day dissecting them. Yes there are a couple clear blacks and whites (Ramsay and Hodor, respectfully), but the entire spectrum is covered. Even Ramsay clearly regretted
murdering his own father and baby brother.
You could tell by the expression on his face. As sociopathic as he is, he did have a short moment of regret for those actions.

Game of Thrones, if anything, has taken morally ambiguous characters to the extreme. To say they are typical fantasy trope seems absurd to me. However given the fact that the entire logical spectrum of characters is covered, there are inevitably going to be a few typical archetype characters. But in the context of the totality of the cast of characters, it is clear they are by far the minority. The vast majority are shades of gray.



In fact the characters are so much more complex than you give credit for that the audience ends up rooting for BOTH sides of a given conflict! The battle at King's Landing for example, has protagonists and villains on either side. We root for Tyrion, but we root against Joffery. We root for Ser Davos, but we root against AND FOR Stannis. We even root for Cersei when she's contemplating poisoning her youngest son in fear that the battle is lost, hoping that the Lannisters win so her child is spared. These characters are way more well rounded than you given credit for. Or at least they cover the wide spectrum of possible moral positions that characters can take.
 
Last edited:
  • #57
257
407
Ian McShane might agree with the OP's statement....
 
  • #58
Dotini
Gold Member
633
231
The HBO production of Game of Thrones continues destroying all previous ratings for television series, including its own.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/06/21/cable-weekly-top-25-june-13-19-2016/
“Game of Thrones” was the runaway leader in the cable rankings for June 13-19.
The HBO series’ penultimate episode of the season earned a 3.8 rating in adults 18-49. No other show on cable got more than 1.0. In viewers, its 7.66 million was more than 3 million ahead of second-place “Rizzoli & Isles” (4 million).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mild, very mild, spoiler warning for the graphic below.

It's published by The Economist in an article by an Oxford medieval scholar, and very amusing. It assesses the chances for a Targaryen restoration to the Iron Throne of Westeros.

https://www.1843magazine.com/culture/the-daily/how-to-win-the-game-of-thrones
GOT_logistics_CMS-V4.jpg
 
  • #59
257
407
If they keep making episodes like Battle of the Bastards their ratings will continue to top the charts.
I wonder if the season finale will open with a shot of a dog taking a dump in front of Winterfel?
 
  • Like
Likes Battlemage!
  • #60
Dotini
Gold Member
633
231
Photos and preview video of season-concluding episode 10 here: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/22/game-thrones-finale-photos

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/23/game-thrones-ratings
Game of Thrones ratings have reached new heights in season 6.

U.S. viewership of the HBO fantasy hit have now surpassed 23 million viewers episode when all forms of viewing are counted (that’s originals, repeats, DVR and streaming).

Even with the season not yet finished and data still incomplete, that tally is up 15 percent from season 5, which was the show’s previous record holder.
http://www.ew.com/sites/default/files/styles/tout_image_612x380/public/1466618715/thrones-610-003.jpg?itok=OZmc06Qm [Broken]
Thrones has grown its ratings every season and last year scored a record number of primetime Emmys. Yet we’re still hearing the producers and network are looking to conclude the series, with just 13 more episodes planned after this season – seven next year, six in 2018. (That plans, however, has not been confirmed by HBO.) Showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss have long said their goal is to end the series on a creative high note, but the show is looking increasingly likely to end on a ratings peak as well.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #61
294
44
It's not perfect but there has never been anything of this scope on tv. It's up there with Breaking Bad in terms of quality in my opinion, but nothing in tv surpasses it when it comes to the vastness of its scope.
 
  • #62
Pythagorean
Gold Member
4,291
276
It's not perfect but there has never been anything of this scope on tv. It's up there with Breaking Bad in terms of quality in my opinion, but nothing in tv surpasses it when it comes to the vastness of its scope.

While I love GoT, I don't think the quality of the acting for some characters is on par with Breaking Bad. Particularly Dany and Sansa.
 
  • #63
294
44
While I love GoT, I don't think the quality of the acting for some characters is on par with Breaking Bad. Particularly Dany and Sansa.
Oh certainly. But the scope is far greater, which evens that out I think. I think Peter Dinklage and many others with smaller parts have done well enough to rival some of that, but no one can beat Bryan Cranston.
 
  • #64
Bandersnatch
Science Advisor
3,142
2,242
Have you seen the latest episode? A new meaning to King's Landing. Lol.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes Battlemage!
  • #65
Dotini
Gold Member
633
231
Have you seen the latest episode? A new meaning to King's Landing. Lol.
Yes! I thought Ramin Djwadi brought his musical score to ever greater heights during the opening scene. The CGI, sets, costumes, ensemble cast and direction are all going to bring in new batches of Emmys, IMO. Here and there the writing was a bit sketchy, but I'm willing to overlook that and wait for George RR Martin's next novel to set that part straight.
 
  • Like
Likes Battlemage!
  • #66
257
407
I thought the finale was an excellent follow up to The Battle of the Bastards. Great way to wrap up the season.
 

Related Threads on Game of Thrones is overrated

  • Last Post
Replies
6
Views
3K
Replies
139
Views
30K
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • Last Post
3
Replies
70
Views
18K
  • Last Post
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • Last Post
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • Last Post
2
Replies
35
Views
18K
  • Last Post
Replies
4
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
774
Top