1. Not finding help here? Sign up for a free 30min tutor trial with Chegg Tutors
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Gear ratios example question

Tags:
  1. Nov 21, 2015 #1
    Hi,

    I don't get the right answer for this question. I don't see where I'm going wrong.

    I use this equation to get the engine rpm for each gear ratio:

    engine speed (rpm) = gear ratio X final drive ratio X vehicle speed X 60 / (2*pi*rolling radius)

    So for first gear I get an engine rpm of 8880rpm
    Second gear = 5190rpm
    Third gear = 3414rpm
    Fourth gear = 2500rpm

    So my answer to is that gear 2 and gear 3 fulfill the conditions. However the answer says its gear 4. Any thoughts as to what I'm missing?

    Thanks.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 23, 2015 #2

    Mech_Engineer

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    The provided parameters give you enough information to calculate wind drag and rolling resistance; are you considering either of those to take into account in your calculations?
     
  4. Nov 23, 2015 #3

    billy_joule

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    The problem seems poorly formed. No information is given about the power output at 2500 RPM so how could one say with any certainty that fourth gear will work at all?
    Also, the question states Pmax is required to maintain the given speed, so there is no way forth gear would work as P2500RPM < Pmax.

    I agree with the OP's conclusion. There's no need to calc. power required to overcome wind drag, rolling drag etc, we are told it's 59.4 HP, gears 2 and 3 meet that requirement. There's an error in the question.
     
  5. Nov 23, 2015 #4

    Mech_Engineer

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    I disagree, the problem statement specifically states "The engine power is seen to be approximately constant at its maximum value Pmax = 59.4hp over the engine speed range 3000-6000rpm." Given a known power output and engine speed, net torque output (and therefore a force balance) can be developed for the vehicle.

    The problem is for the student to determine "which of the four gearbox ratios can be used to maintain the speed of 40mph up the incline." There are four gear ratios given, and it has to be determined which would be used based on a vehicle force balance.

    The only "error" I see if there is one is that it doesn't specifically state that air drag is to be taken into account. But given the context of the question and the information presented (including coefficient of drag, chassis dimensions, and rolling drag) it seems obvious to me that a force balance must be considered which includes:
    • Air Drag
    • Rolling resistance (given as 200N)
    • Torque required to lift car's weight up the incline (taking into account total mass and the tire diameter)
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
  6. Nov 23, 2015 #5

    billy_joule

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    Given it's to one decimal place I assumed it remained pretty close to that figure.

    Either way, the power required for a 1200kg car to go 40mph up a 20deg incline is more than Pmax, even before accounting for drag & rolling resistance. The car isnt even capable of doing what is claimed! Not surprising really, I've driven up the worlds steepest street (19 deg), there was no way the Suzuki Cultus I was driving (~100hp, ~1 ton) would've done 40 mph up it.
    A pic from wiki:
    DunedinBaldwinStreet_Parked_Car.jpg
     
  7. Nov 23, 2015 #6

    Mech_Engineer

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    O.P.:

    You've calculated the engine speeds at each of the gear ratios which is a good start. Next you need to calculate the torque output of the engine given a known power output and RPM (see here: calculate engine power given torque and speed). Given those calculated torque output values, calculate the net force to the ground at the tires, and compare to the sum of the forces working against it (air drag, rolling drag, and incline drag).

    To maintain speed, the net force to the ground from the engine needs to be greater than or equal to the sum of the drag forces.
     
  8. Nov 23, 2015 #7

    Mech_Engineer

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Good catch, maybe the OP made a mistake transcribing the problem statement? It looks like a 59 hp car could only do 40mph up to an approx 12 deg. incline...
     
  9. Nov 23, 2015 #8

    SteamKing

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper

    I disagree with the book answer.

    Fourth gear in this vehicle is essentially an overdrive gear, which is usually used for cruising on long stretches of roadway. Unless the vehicle is already at speed when encountering the incline, normal practice is to shift out of overdrive into a lower gear (higher overall gear ratio) to keep the engine in a speed range where it is making maximum power or close to it, during the climb. Otherwise, you are trying to lug the engine while going up the hill, which is not good for keeping the engine in good running condition. Once you get up the hill, then you can shift back into overdrive and resume cruising.
     
  10. Nov 23, 2015 #9

    Mech_Engineer

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    I suspect this isn't actually the answer from an answer book, but is in fact an incorrect answer given on another forum where this question has been cross-posted.

    We will require several clarifications from the OP before moving forward; first and foremost, the stated horsepower of the vehicle is not enough to maintain 40mph up a 20 deg. incline.
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?
Draft saved Draft deleted



Similar Discussions: Gear ratios example question
  1. Gear ratio ? (Replies: 5)

  2. Gear train question. (Replies: 1)

  3. Gear Ratio (Replies: 1)

Loading...