German Jazz quartet was playing

[chaoseverlasting]

I just came back from this club where this German Jazz quartet was playing. Apparently theyre on a world tour, and Delhi was one of their stops. I kinda liked it, they were really good, and technically, they were off the charts (their lead guitarist was this lady who was absolutely brilliant), the music was almost sublime though. Like, there was this blues band which came to the same place a week ago and they were insane, I mean, they had the whole club up in an uproar, and they were technically just as good or better. I don't have too much experience with Jazz, at most I've listened to Dave Matthews and a little bit of Miles Davis and John Coltrane, but is Jazz generally subtle or was this an exception to the rule? I loved it though. Its an amazing experience just listening to a band that good.

 

[humanino]

Its an amazing experience just listening to a band that good.

If there is one good thing about jazz, you can be pretty sure that jazz musicians are not kidding about their technics. Jazz is a challenging style for instrumentalists.

 

[turbo]

Some jazz is quite wild, and some is really sweet - it's a very wide-open genre. I was never heavily into jazz, but Larry Coryell's Fairyland (live album) saw plenty of play-time when I was in college. Early John McLaughlin was really good, too. When I went to see him with his new band (Mahavishnu Orchestra) as they started their first US tour, I was blown away. Really fiery blistering leads and LOUD! I was expecting the quieter laid-back McLaughlin, so when the Byrds came out first, then the much louder Blue Oyster Cult, I was disappointed because my ears were ringing. I needn't have worried - there was a reason that they had McLaughlin's band come on last - extreme volume. He was playing a Les Paul plugged straight into a Twin Reverb and I swear the volume knob was was up on "10". The amp was probably loaded with very efficient JBLs or Altec-Lansings. I have never heard a Twin put out that kind of volume before or since.

If you want smooth laid-back jazz Dave Brubeck's stuff from the '60s is quite nice. I saw him and his quartet in concert with Gerry Mulligan on sax - a VERY enjoyable concert.

 

[chaoseverlasting]

I thought you need to be a bit laid back for jazz. You can't pay too much attention to anyone instrument or you lose the rest of it. I automatically separate each instruments sound and try to figure out who's playing what, but that kinda lost the feeling of the piece as a whole. On the contrary, Blues is a lot simpler and easier to 'get'.

And yeah, instrumentally, I thought I was in love with that lady! The leads she was playing! She tore through the guitar like it was nothing at all. It opened a whole new thought process as far as 'thinking of leads' is concerned. The first time that happened to me was when I was listening to 'Blue Sky', 'Dreams' and 'Sweet Melissa' by the Allman Brothers. They do amazing stuff with their leads too.

 

[WhoWee]

Jazz has 3 distinct places in my life.

1.) Played softly in the background when I'm lost in a project
2.) Played loud in the car when I have a long drive
3.) At a club when my wife and I want to really get away and relax

 

[chaoseverlasting]

Im leaning towards more mellow jazz, any suggestions (Ive already downloaded a tonne of Dave Brubeck)?

 

[turbo]

And yeah, instrumentally, I thought I was in love with that lady! The leads she was playing! She tore through the guitar like it was nothing at all. It opened a whole new thought process as far as 'thinking of leads' is concerned. The first time that happened to me was when I was listening to 'Blue Sky', 'Dreams' and 'Sweet Melissa' by the Allman Brothers. They do amazing stuff with their leads too.

One thing you will notice about the Allman Brothers is that their songs were set up so you can play leads using both major (for Duane's slide tuning) and minor scales. Try it by playing along with some of their early stuff. Once you get used to transitioning between leads that way, you can throw that into your live performances.

 

[lisab]

Im leaning towards more mellow jazz, any suggestions (Ive already downloaded a tonne of Dave Brubeck)?

I love, love jazz. I listen to it in my lab and in my office at work...it drowns out the sports talk radio that my coworkers have droning on all day :yuck:.

http://www.kplu.org/embed_windows32_kplu.html"
They play a very wide variety of jazz...some of it I don't like so much but it's still better than sports talk.

Listen to that for a while, chaos, and you'll get an idea of what kind of artists you like. But you're already onto my all-time fave, Dave Brubeck.

 

[Ben Niehoff]

I swing dance, so I like hot jazz from the 20's and 30's. Stuff that grabs you and makes you want to move. It was after the swing era that jazz mellowed out and become more "cerebral". Originally it was dance music.

 

[chaoseverlasting]

I love, love jazz. I listen to it in my lab and in my office at work...it drowns out the sports talk radio that my coworkers have droning on all day :yuck:.

http://www.kplu.org/embed_windows32_kplu.html"
They play a very wide variety of jazz...some of it I don't like so much but it's still better than sports talk.

Listen to that for a while, chaos, and you'll get an idea of what kind of artists you like. But you're already onto my all-time fave, Dave Brubeck.

Thats a really great station lisab! Amazing stuff! The brass players in general are brilliant. I read somewhere that wind instrument musicians are naturally better at phrasing. :tongue: I think I am hooked.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

Kind of Blue by Miles Davis, you'll love it if you haven't heard it already.

 

[Cyrus]

Some jazz is quite wild, and some is really sweet - it's a very wide-open genre. I was never heavily into jazz, but Larry Coryell's Fairyland (live album) saw plenty of play-time when I was in college. Early John McLaughlin was really good, too. When I went to see him with his new band (Mahavishnu Orchestra) as they started their first US tour, I was blown away. Really fiery blistering leads and LOUD! I was expecting the quieter laid-back McLaughlin, so when the Byrds came out first, then the much louder Blue Oyster Cult, I was disappointed because my ears were ringing. I needn't have worried - there was a reason that they had McLaughlin's band come on last - extreme volume. He was playing a Les Paul plugged straight into a Twin Reverb and I swear the volume knob was was up on "10". The amp was probably loaded with very efficient JBLs or Altec-Lansings. I have never heard a Twin put out that kind of volume before or since.

If you want smooth laid-back jazz Dave Brubeck's stuff from the '60s is quite nice. I saw him and his quartet in concert with Gerry Mulligan on sax - a VERY enjoyable concert.

Meh, Jazz is just a perversion of classical music. Takes no tallent.

 

[turbo]

Meh, Jazz is just a perversion of classical music. Takes no tallent.

Jazz (like most blues) is a loose free-form kind of performance that can change with the wind. If you think that you can equate improvisational music with "classical", you are definitely not a musician, or at least not an even marginally accomplished one. I attended college with a violinist from Thailand that was scary-good and though he spent summer internships playing with orchestras in Europe, he spent time with me and my blues-addicted friends and liked to sit in on sessions. To say that such musicianship takes "no talent" is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Cyrus]

Jazz (like most blues) is a loose free-form kind of performance that can change with the wind. If you think that you can equate improvisational music with "classical", you are definitely not a musician, or at least not an even marginally accomplished one. I attended college with a violinist from Thailand that was scary-good and though he spent summer internships playing with orchestras in Europe, he spent time with me and my blues-addicted friends and liked to sit in on sessions. To say that such musicianship takes "no talent" is pretty ridiculous.

You say that about DJs all the time. Now do you see how ridiculous your statements are?

You come off as arrogant and ignorant when you say "oh, I am sure I could be better than any DJ out there because I played in a band at a bar back in the day", yet you have never touched a turn table...

Stop acting like you're Mozart. Jeeessssssh, turbo. Sorry, you needed a reality check.

 

[turbo]

You say that about DJs all the time. Now do you see how rediculous your statements are?

You come off as arrogant and ignorant when you say "oh, I am sure I could be better than any DJ out there because I played in a band at a bar back in the day", yet you have never touched a turn table...

Stop acting like your Mozart. Jeeessssssh, turbo. Sorry, you needed a reality check.

You are apparently still ticked off because I said that DJs are not musicians. They are dime-a-dozen performance artists that steal the artistic output of real musicians, repackage it and hype it. You can get a DJ to supply music for a function for a fraction of what a real decent band would cost you, and you'll get a fraction of real music. You get what you pay for.

 

[Cyrus]

You are apparently still ticked off because I said that DJs are not musicians. They are dime-a-dozen performance artists that steal the artistic output of real musicians, repackage it and hype it. You can get a DJ to supply music for a function for a fraction of what a real decent band would cost you, and you'll get a fraction of real music. You get what you pay for.

Could you tell me, specifically, where they stole this techno beat from:



You say they are a dime a dozen. You don't think local bar bands like yours isn't a dime a dozen? I'd love to take you for a stroll to a bar to see how many 'live bands' are out there. I can find you plenty of them too. You have no idea what a good DJ can do, which shows how little you understand music other than what you play -jazz. You shouldn't talk about any other genre of music. Just because you don't happen to like it, doesn't mean its easy, or that it isn't music.

You're making the kind of statements someone would make when they see this:

DAH, I CAN PAINT THAT TOO DAHHHH...it's just a bunch of lines.

Sorry, no.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

What is there to steal? Half of the song is switching between three notes over a thumping bass. You can't steal three notes.

 

[Cyrus]

What is there to steal? Half of the song is switching between three notes over a thumping bass. You can't steal three notes.

The problem is that his notion of a DJ is that from the 80's where they sampled peoples music, a la Hip Hop. Yet he is totally obilivious to the various types of DJs out there today.

 

[turbo]

Could you tell me, specifically, where they stole this techno beat from:



You say they are a dime a dozen. You don't think local bar bands like yours isn't a dime a dozen? I'd love to take you for a stroll to a bar to see how many 'live bands' are out there. I can find you plenty of them too. You have no idea what a good DJ can do, which shows how little you understand music other than what you play -jazz. You shouldn't talk about any other genre of music. Just because you don't happen to like it, doesn't mean its easy, or that it isn't music.

You're making the kind of statements someone would make when they see this:

DAH, I CAN PAINT THAT TOO DAHHHH...

Sorry, no.

The rants of the willfully ignorant do not impress me. Do not confuse the talents of real musicians with the ability of DJs to steal and re-package their music. These losers are not anywhere near on the same level as the musicians that they parisitize.

And as for the "bar bands" comment, when I was running the weekly blues-jam at a local tavern (a bit of step up from the typical bar-band talent) instructors and students from distant University of Maine music programs used to show up regularly to play with us. We had a blast, and many of the kids could not have performed with us (being under 21) without parental or academic supervision. I loved a lot of those kids and can't wait to see what they can do, and I applaud their parents/academic sponsors for bringing them to the jams. Why would an academic advisor in a music program spend time and money to bring kids to and open-mike jam 45 minutes or more away?

 

[Cyrus]

The rants of the willfully ignorant do not impress me.

I thought the same thing when reading your comments about DJs.

Do not confuse the talents of real musicians with the ability of DJs to steal and re-package their music. These losers are not anywhere near on the same level as the musicians that they parisitize.

Have you ever spun on a turn table before? You can say for a fact that it's not an instrument? Talk about willfully ignorant.

And as for the "bar bands" comment, when I was running the weekly blues-jam at a local tavern (a bit of step up from the typical bar-band talent) instructors and students from distant University of Maine music programs used to show up regularly to play with us. We had a blast, and many of the kids could not have performed with us (being under 21) without parental or academic supervision. I loved a lot of those kids and can't wait to see what they can do, and I applaud their parents/academic sponsors for bringing them to the jams. Why would an academic advisor in a music program spend time and money to bring kids to and open-mike jam 45 minutes or more away?

What does this colorful story have to do with with DJs? You played in a rinky dink tavern. I get that.

Turbo, for someone that claims to love music, you sure don't know much about it, and worse you have false notions about what you don't understand.

I'll tell you what. Master the art of DJ'ing (since you think its so easy). When you become one of the top DJs and say how easy it was for you, then I'll respect your view. Otherwise thinking 'its not an instrument', 'they don't play music', 'I could be the best DJ if I wanted to', are laughable statements.

 

[turbo]

I thought the same thing when reading your comments about DJs.



Have you ever spun on a turn table before? You can say for a fact that it's not an instrument? Talk about willfully ignorant.



What does this colorful story have to do with with DJs? You played in a rinky dink tavern. I get that.

Turbo, for someone that claims to love music, you sure don't know much about it, and worse you have false notions about what you don't understand.

I'll tell you what. Master the art of DJ'ing (since you think its so easy). When you become one of the top DJs and say how easy it was for you, then I'll respect your view. Otherwise thinking 'its not an instrument', 'they don't play music', 'I could be the best DJ if I wanted to', are laughable statements.

You are not a musician. Your friends are not musicians. Dj's are not musicians. The size of the venue that a musician performs in has no relation to the talent of the musician.

Are you with me so far?

One of my closest friends is a HUGE fan of Muddy Waters as exemplified by his MOJO vanity plates. He and his band backed Pine-Top Perkins on "Live Top" which is a great CD. Pine-Top was Muddy's piano player and vocalist for a long time and was a great blues influence. Of course you know all this because you have touched turn-tables...

 

[Cyrus]

You are not a musician. Your friends are not musicians. Dj's are not musicians. The size of the venue that a musician performs in has no relation to the talent of the musician.

I never said I was. I never said my friends were.

One of my closest friends is a HUGE fan of Muddy Waters as exemplified by his MOJO vanity plates. He and his band backed Pine-Top Perkins on "Live Top" which is a great CD. Pine-Top was Muddy's piano player and vocalist for a long time and was a great blues influence. Of course you know all this because you have touched turn-tables...

All your talk is cheap. Get a turn table. Make sounds come out of it. You cant. But I'm sure you can tell me stories till the cows come home about playing in bars, and all sorts of other Jazz related topics: all talk, no play.

If you think its sooooooooooooooooo easy, I want you to play something for me.

I bet your next post is another amazing story about meeting Louis Armstrong in a bar and jamming with him. (Although it proves nothing about your claim on the skills needed to DJ).

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

Its a whole lot easier to make a pleasing sound come out of a turntable than to make a pleasing sound come out of a real instrument, you should try it some time.

 

[Cyrus]

Its a whole lot easier to make a pleasing sound come out of a turntable than to make a pleasing sound come out of a real instrument, you should try it some time.

I could play marry had a little lamb quite easily. Same way I could just 'play' a record on a table. So...

BTW, I never said playing an instrument wasnt hard. I said playing a turn table isn't easy either.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

Mary had a little lamb? I said pleasing! haha

 

[turbo]

I never said I was. I never said my friends were.



All your talk is cheap. Get a turn table. Make sounds come out of it. You cant. But I'm sure you can tell me stories till the cows come home about playing in bars, and all sorts of other Jazz related topics: all talk, no play.

If you think its sooooooooooooooooo easy, I want you to play something for me.

I bet your next post is another amazing story about meeting Louis Armstrong in a bar and jamming with him. (Although it proves nothing about your claim on the skills needed to DJ).

"skills needed to dj"? I can't help but laugh. Any other response would be purgative.

 

[Cyrus]

"skills needed to dj"? I can't help but laugh. Any other response would be purgative.

You're just mad you have to play in a tavern, while the DJs actually have an audience.

Again, when you've actually done some DJ'ing I'll respect your opinion. You just can't handle the fact that its something you can't do, so you trash it.

Saying something is easy when you've never tried it is ignorant. You know that saying, 'he makes it look easy'. Yeah, it looks easy...until you try it.

 

[cristo]

I could play marry had a little lamb quite easily. Same way I could just 'play' a record on a table. So...

I think this is the reason why turbo and others think how they do. It is, without a doubt, easier to play a record than it is to pick up a guitar, say, and play a song. Of course, DJs don't just play records, but I think this is something that you will only appreciate if you've actually listened to a DJ set, and not just the odd track here and there, or some DJ playing abba at a cousin's wedding. The latter is not what Cyrus is talking about here! DJs are definitely musicians in every sense of the word: (the good ones) make the music they play, they interact with the crowd, etc..

 

[WhoWee]

I think this is the reason why turbo and others think how they do. It is, without a doubt, easier to play a record than it is to pick up a guitar, say, and play a song. Of course, DJs don't just play records, but I think this is something that you will only appreciate if you've actually listened to a DJ set, and not just the odd track here and there, or some DJ playing abba at a cousin's wedding. The latter is not what Cyrus is talking about here! DJs are definitely musicians in every sense of the word: (the good ones) make the music they play, they interact with the crowd, etc..

A good DJ control is the heart and soul of a crowded club. Once plugged in, the DJ controls the club...call it a performance...but it's more like a traffic cop/surgeon/pit boss combo...if the DJ is good the club rocks...if not > NEXT!

Likewise, a band, whether they play original music or covers, develops it's own following. People follow the band from location to location. Obviously, different bands will attract different crowds...the club owners must decide what type of crowd they want and select the appropriate act. There is a big difference between being an accomplished musician and a live entertainer...sometimes a band requires a mixture of both.

The skill sets required to be either a top DJ or a musician in a band exceed the ability to operate the equipment efficiently...an ability to adapt, be creative and interact are also important.

My hat is off to both.

 

[turbo]

You're just mad you have to play in a tavern, while the DJs actually have an audience.

Again, when you've actually done some DJ'ing I'll respect your opinion. You just can't handle the fact that its something you can't do, so you trash it.

Saying something is easy when you've never tried it is ignorant. You know that saying, 'he makes it look easy'. Yeah, it looks easy...until you try it.

At the risk of beating a dead horse, choosing the sequence of other people's music and synching turntables and CD players and MP3 players is trivial. The "talent" involved in reading crowd response and choosing music on the fly is something that real musicians have to do every single day. If you don't keep butts on bar-stools and feet on the dance-floor you won't get hired back. The difference is that DJs don't ever have to learn how to sing or play and instrument. Sequencing live music is even more complicated when you're hosting open-mike jams because you have to accommodate the styles/talents of drop-in musicians. I got paid well to do that because the bar made a whole lot more money when I was there. It's not charity work.

When a band canceled on him, the owner of the local hotel/bar called on really short notice and asked me to put something together. I got some close friends together (who all play in bands, still) including my sister, who is the vocalist in a band too, and we showed up with NO rehearsal to play that gig. We kept the place packed and the owner had the best night ever (confirmed by the lead bartender). When he had cashed up and was paying us, he pleaded with us to leave our respective bands and stay together, saying he would make us his house band and let us use his place to store all our gear and rehearse. Of course, he could have hired a DJ...

Regarding "talent", in elementary school and HS, I played trumpet and baritone and added French horn in HS. I played in regional and all-state bands during that time. I also played bass guitar and electric guitar in bands for extra money during HS, and played frat parties and private parties to help pay my way through college. Later, I took up banjo, percussion and keyboards, though guitar remained my main-stay. After you have spent a few thousand hours mastering a real musical instrument, then come back and tell me how hard it is to be a DJ. It's nice that you respect the work that they do, but the "instant gratification" aspect of their work is pretty galling to someone who has spent a lifetime mastering an instrument. DJs are entertainers, not musicians.

 

[cristo]

When he had cashed up and was paying us, he pleaded with us to leave our respective bands and stay together, saying he would make us his house band and let us use his place to store all our gear and rehearse. Of course, he could have hired a DJ...

But like I said above, this isn't the type of DJ that Cyrus is thinking of. You're thinking of a wedding-type DJ; i.e. someone who plays similar music to the music you are talking about playing in a tavern. This is not a real DJ.. it is someone playing a few records. Under Cyrus' definition of a DJ, it is clear that such a person is a musician, who invests thousands of hours learning how to play his music.

 

[Cyrus]

At the risk of beating a dead horse, choosing the sequence of other people's music and synching turntables and CD players and MP3 players is trivial. The "talent" involved in reading crowd response and choosing music on the fly is something that real musicians have to do every single day. If you don't keep butts on bar-stools and feet on the dance-floor you won't get hired back. The difference is that DJs don't ever have to learn how to sing or play and instrument. Sequencing live music is even more complicated when you're hosting open-mike jams because you have to accommodate the styles/talents of drop-in musicians. I got paid well to do that because the bar made a whole lot more money when I was there. It's not charity work.

When a band canceled on him, the owner of the local hotel/bar called on really short notice and asked me to put something together. I got some close friends together (who all play in bands, still) including my sister, who is the vocalist in a band too, and we showed up with NO rehearsal to play that gig. We kept the place packed and the owner had the best night ever (confirmed by the lead bartender). When he had cashed up and was paying us, he pleaded with us to leave our respective bands and stay together, saying he would make us his house band and let us use his place to store all our gear and rehearse. Of course, he could have hired a DJ...

Regarding "talent", in elementary school and HS, I played trumpet and baritone and added French horn in HS. I played in regional and all-state bands during that time. I also played bass guitar and electric guitar in bands for extra money during HS, and played frat parties and private parties to help pay my way through college. Later, I took up banjo, percussion and keyboards, though guitar remained my main-stay. After you have spent a few thousand hours mastering a real musical instrument, then come back and tell me how hard it is to be a DJ. It's nice that you respect the work that they do, but the "instant gratification" aspect of their work is pretty galling to someone who has spent a lifetime mastering an instrument. DJs are entertainers, not musicians.

You are a lousy musician because you don't respect other people's work.

 

[turbo]

You are a lousy musician because you don't respect other people's work.

Personal insults are not a good way to settle an argument that you can't win.

 

[BWV]

In regards to the pig-ignorant statement of Jazz "requiring no talent", that view is not shared by any classical composer or performer I am aware of. Unless Cyrus thinks he is a better judge of talent than Stravinsky or Ravel or Debussy

Kind of Blue is the Led Zeppelin IV of Jazz

after that I would recommend for a beginner:

Louis Armstrong Plays WC Handy
TS Monk - Brilliant Corners
John Coltrane - Giant Steps
Miles Davis - In a Silent Way
Herbie Hancock - Head Hunters
Pat Metheny - Works

 

[chaoseverlasting]

Meh, Jazz is just a perversion of classical music. Takes no tallent.

Are you serious? Get your head outta your ***.