Germany vs Italy

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  • #51
shmoe
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Anttech said:
You said that the "floppiness is hurting popularity" THAT is an assumption! Period, you cant prove it, and you have already admited that the opposite is the case, that it is getting more and more popular, THAT is a fact! Perhaps the rate of popularity increase in your community would be better if there wasnt the "floppiness" Can you live with that ? :biggrin:

Cripes- do I have to produce people who refuse to watch because of theatrics? These are lost viewers, this is fact. Will people stop watching if it were removed from the game? If no (is this really unreasonable?), the net result will be a boost. Simple? Can you get the idea that something can have a negative effect on popularity even though the overall popularity is on the rise? That it could in fact be rising faster?

Anttech said:
Exageration? yeap I have read umpteen times about how much diving Italy have been doing, its funny, because the all the media I read seem to indicate that they have not been doing this.

In the games I've seen, *most* of the times Italian players have gone down there was in fact contact. They do greatly embellish though, with the face grabbing as if their left leg has just been torn off. This gives a serious reputation hit in a country where we can watch a player picking his teeth off the ice, get stitched up, and return to the game to set up a winning goal.

This isn't about comparing sports themselves, but the general attitudes on how they are played. I've said it before, I love football (the soccer kind). I think some of the best conditioned athletes in the world are found in football, and it gives the best opportunities for creative displays of astonishing skill. At it's best, it is the best. At it's worst, it's painful to watch. I don't see why anyone wouldn't think it an improvement if the worst bits were removed.
 
  • #52
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Anttech said:
You said that the "floppiness is hurting popularity" THAT is an assumption! Period, you cant prove it, and you have already admited that the opposite is the case, that it is getting more and more popular, THAT is a fact! Perhaps the rate of popularity increase in your community would be better if there wasnt the "floppiness" Can you live with that ? :biggrin:

Exageration? yeap I have read umpteen times about how much diving Italy have been doing, its funny, because the all the media I read seem to indicate that they have not been doing this.

Good for you, and credit that you are forming your own, yet misguided, oppinion's not reguritating some (soar grapes?) ESPN commentators nonsence.

Floppiness is preventing popularity in the US, that is a fact. I personally will never get behind the sport in its current state. Read some opinion pieces from American media on soccer. Most of them say soccer will never catch on here because we won't stand for the theatrics that take place.

If you claim the media you read does not indicate Italy has been flopping, then maybe you should stop reading your media and open your eyes and watch a game. It is absolutely pathetic what goes on, and then even more so that there are no repercussions for it. I don't blame the refs too much because the current officiating system is horribly flawed and they can't be on top of every play. But when a guy is rolling on the ground grabbing his eye and the replay shows nobody even touched his face... come on. Grow a set of balls. Ok, I understand you just got beat, somebody stole the ball from you, so rather than get up and chase after him, it's "manlier" to flop to the ground and pretend you got fouled, that way he is the dirty one because you could never lose the ball on a fair play, you are a soccer player!

I have played many sports throughout my life and have suffered many injuries, but never once in my life have I sustained an injury that caused me to roll on the ground grabbing a body part screaming in pain for 10 seconds, only to completely heal and allow me to get up and run for another 45 minutes with no ill effects seconds later. Yet somehow this happens all the time to these super soccer athletes. Then after the game they all take their shirts off, and sit around drinking Capri Sun and eating orange slices. Soccer players are so tough!

The players are floppers, sissies, and have no integrity. I'm sure they're not all like that, but enough are that it ruins it for many people. So Europe, thanks, but no thanks. We don't want soccer.
 
  • #53
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Cripes- do I have to produce people who refuse to watch because of theatrics? These are lost viewers, this is fact. Will people stop watching if it were removed from the game? If no (is this really unreasonable?), the net result will be a boost. Simple? Can you get the idea that something can have a negative effect on popularity even though the overall popularity is on the rise? That it could in fact be rising faster?

-->"Perhaps the rate of popularity increase in your community would be better if there wasnt the "floppiness" Can you live with that ?"

I think you will find I said this :)

This isn't about comparing sports themselves, but the general attitudes on how they are played. I've said it before, I love football (the soccer kind). I think some of the best conditioned athletes in the world are found in football, and it gives the best opportunities for creative displays of astonishing skill. At it's best, it is the best. At it's worst, it's painful to watch. I don't see why anyone wouldn't think it an improvement if the worst bits were removed.

U have some good points, but I dont see the diving as bad as it has been or could be, its not a violent sport. Its almost non-contact. If you want to watch people hack bits out of each other watch Rugby or Hockey, watch football if you want to watch artistic finesse.
 
  • #54
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Floppiness is preventing popularity in the US, that is a fact. I personally will never get behind the sport in its current state. Read some opinion pieces from American media on soccer. Most of them say soccer will never catch on here because we won't stand for the theatrics that take place.

If you claim the media you read does not indicate Italy has been flopping, then maybe you should stop reading your media and open your eyes and watch a game. It is absolutely pathetic what goes on, and then even more so that there are no repercussions for it. I don't blame the refs too much because the current officiating system is horribly flawed and they can't be on top of every play. But when a guy is rolling on the ground grabbing his eye and the replay shows nobody even touched his face... come on. Grow a set of balls. Ok, I understand you just got beat, somebody stole the ball from you, so rather than get up and chase after him, it's "manlier" to flop to the ground and pretend you got fouled, that way he is the dirty one because you could never lose the ball on a fair play, you are a soccer player!

two words:

SOUR GRAPES!

We don't want soccer.

Its called Football, and well, the rest of the world wont be complaining if we dont have to listen to "Net-shot" or "EPL" or "Round of 16" again :eek:
 
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  • #55
shmoe
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Anttech said:
-->"Perhaps the rate of popularity increase in your community would be better if there wasnt the "floppiness" Can you live with that ?"

In other words- 'it's hurting the popularity'. Yea, I can accept that and happily accept the limitation to Canada and the US (the only places I've been speaking for)

Anttech said:
U have some good points, but I dont see the diving as bad as it has been or could be, its not a violent sport. Its almost non-contact. If you want to watch people hack bits out of each other watch Rugby or Hockey, watch football if you want to watch artistic finesse.

There is much finesse, but it is also physical game. Contact is inevetable.

Do you play? Did your coaches try to instill a desire to deceive the officials? To fall over when you could have stayed up? This is decidedly not the atmosphere I was in growing up-let the officials call the game, never give up chase unless your leg is broken. (I'm genuinely curious on the attitudes of players over there)

ps. hockey is filled with artistic finesse. Some players can do things with the puck that mere mortals cannot fathom. The hacking each other to bits is happily on a decline with recent rules changes, but there has always been artistic wizardry.

Anttech said:
two words:

SOUR GRAPES!

It's not sour grapes at all. You have to understand that Canadian and US fans would love nothing more than for football to be more popular here. We (I at least) grew up with certain attitudes towards sport and how it should be played. I know if football at the highest levels was played more in this spirit that it would be more popular here and it's sad that the sport I most love to play will never be wholly embraced as a spectator event here if it stays in it's current form.
 
  • #56
George Jones
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shmoe said:
This is decidedly not the atmosphere I was in growing up-let the officials call the game, never give up chase unless your leg is broken. (I'm genuinely curious on the attitudes of players over there)

Some people don't even give up then. While skating on a fractured ankle, Bobby Baun scored an overtime game-winning goal for the Leafs in the 1964 finals.
 
  • #57
NateTG
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shmoe said:
In the games I've seen, *most* of the times Italian players have gone down there was in fact contact. They do greatly embellish though, with the face grabbing as if their left leg has just been torn off. This gives a serious reputation hit in a country where we can watch a player picking his teeth off the ice, get stitched up, and return to the game to set up a winning goal.

Word Cup Soccer currently allows a total of three substitutions per team per game. Until 1970 substitutions were not allowed at all.

As a consequence, players with injuries (or other problems) will occasionally stay in games. For example, in the epic 1970 semi-final encounter between Italy and Germany, Beckenbauer broke his clavicle near the end of regulation and continued to play.
 
  • #58
shmoe
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George Jones said:
Some people don't even give up then. While skating on a fractured ankle, Bobby Baun scored an overtime game-winning goal for the Leafs in the 1964 finals.

He went off when it happened though :tongue:. That's mostly what I'm getting at, you go down only when you physically have no choice.

Baun's is certainly classic, Hockey has lots of busted foot examples. Even if you can't walk on it, it can be taped up nice and tight inside a skate. Not as feasible in football so I can't begrudge a player resting from an injury like this. I wouldn't think less of a hockey player for not playing on a fractured ankle either though, it certainly takes the right (admirable) combination of competitive drive, toughness, and maybe a touch of stupidity.
 
  • #59
shmoe
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NateTG said:
Word Cup Soccer currently allows a total of three substitutions per team per game. Until 1970 substitutions were not allowed at all.

As a consequence, players with injuries (or other problems) will occasionally stay in games. For example, in the epic 1970 semi-final encounter between Italy and Germany, Beckenbauer broke his clavicle near the end of regulation and continued to play.

Without a doubt there are badasses in football as well. Even if subs were available, would anyone bet that Beckenbauer would have wanted one?
 

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