Girl From Ipanema (1964)

  • #1
Astrud Gilberto With Stan Getz - Girl From Ipanema (1964)

Music Changes the Way You Think
Different music encourages different frames of mind
By Daniel A. Yudkin, Yaacov Trope on June 24, 2014
[. . .]
How does all this relate to repeating chord patterns? What the researchers have done, cleverly, is consider music’s ability to conjure up highly specific mental states. Tiny, almost immeasurable features in a piece of music have the power to elicit deeply personal and specific patterns of thought and emotion in human listeners. (One need only listen to Astrud Gilberto’s Grammy-winning performance of the Girl from Ipanema to re-appreciate music’s ability to capture strange and mysterious moods.) Hansen and Melzner have exploited this fact to provoke in listeners thought patterns corresponding to precisely those mapped by construal level theory.
[. . .]
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https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/music-changes-the-way-you-think/
 
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  • #2
BWV
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cool article and great tune, although the tritone - devil in music story is a myth.
 
  • #3
symbolipoint
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@Mary Conrads Sanburn, nice discussion being the post #1, and a very interesting piece of musical composition. The harmony the music is built with is complicated. There is a YouTube *video presenting an analysis (but I do not have a reference link for it). This is the kind of thing I asked about on the forum a couple of times, but nobody (or at least not from most physical sciences/scientists) know why or how.

That song or piece of music creates an image and sensations, something of landscape and other earthly sounds,... I will not go into that here , now. You could try to, if you want.


*The member TeethWhitener later found and posted that video in post #16.
 
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  • #5
symbolipoint
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The video with Astrud Gilberto on the LARGE thumbnail dispaly of post #1 is currently unavailable; but if you'all or whoever try a search on YouTube, you'll find something, even if not that exact one.

EDIT: just underneath the "unavailable" statement, there is another link, "Watch on YouTube", and THAT is working.

ANOTHER EDIT: For added interest, be aware Jobim did create the song based on a real Girl From Ipanema:
 
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  • #6
pinball1970
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@Mary Conrads Sanburn, nice discussion being the post #1, and a very interesting piece of musical composition. The harmony the music is built with is complicated. There is a YouTube video presenting an analysis (but I do not have a reference link for it). This is the kind of thing I asked about on the forum a couple of times, but nobody (or at least not from most physical sciences/scientists) know why or how.

That song or piece of music creates an image and sensations, something of landscape and other earthly sounds,... I will not go into that here , now. You could try to, if you want.
A lot of maths in that track.....

Sorry I couldn't resist.
 
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  • #7
symbolipoint
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A lot of maths in that track.....

Sorry I couldn't resist.
Most certainly so for those who have full enough understanding; but how does this music with its contained mathematicalness express to me and to others, the felt images and the "earthly sensations" which it does? I have a few ideas but they are very very very murky.
 
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  • #8
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Per the Stravinsky quote I stole in the previous thread, Music cannot inherently express anything. The notes and rhythms in Girl from Ipanema contain a slew of cultural references that provide meaning to us - the Samba clave, impressionistic, extended jazz harmony etc - but this only provides any meaning or communication of mood because we possess the cultural background to get it. If one played the song to Mozart, it would likely sound quite bizarre to him.
 
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  • #9
The Mystery Behind the Girl from Ipanema

“The Girl from Ipanema” is one of the most famous songs from Brazil, capturing an innocent crush on a local Carioca girl. The song was written by Antônio Carlos Jobim and Vinicius de Moraes in 1962, with Jobim behind the music and Moraes wistfully coining the lyrics. But these lyrics weren’t the result of a strong imagination – the girl from Ipanema really does exist.

Read more here:

https://theculturetrip.com/south-america/brazil/articles/the-mystery-behind-the-girl-from-ipanema/
 
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  • #10
pinball1970
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Most certainly so for those who have full enough understanding; but how does this music with its contained mathematicalness express to me and to others, the felt images and the "earthly sensations" which it does? I have a few ideas but they are very very very murky.
We are back to harmonies again. Certain notes can be played together and other combinations produce dissonance.

I play GFI in F (a simple arrangement) but the first chord has a G note over the top as its part of the tune. It's not in the chord (notes FAC) but it is in the scale, the second note of F major so nothing too crazy harmonically.

IF I played an F# or G# it would sound odd because neither of those notes belong harmonically. Your ear would recognize that note should be elsewhere.

That’s just one example and composers use the notes that should be elsewhere in a clever way, your ear picks them out dissonance which creates tension so one is left waiting for a resolution.

The structure is universal but how it is used is not, the first time you hear jazz it sounds like a jumbled mess there is so much going on.

If I played the music of one culture to another it would seem alien BUT there is always structure.

The maths/physic is the same but the rules are just applied differently.
 
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  • #11
symbolipoint
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The structure is universal but how it is used is not, the first time you hear jazz it sounds like a jumbled mess there is so much going on.
Why? Do our mind have more trouble sensing a pattern? Have we more trouble finding or feeling structure in the jazz?

I'm not certain about it but maybe Girl From Ipanema was loosely based on Samba rhythm, so maybe this does something for whatever feeling the listener is supposed to find when hearing it.
 
  • #12
pinball1970
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Why? Do our mind have more trouble sensing a pattern? Have we more trouble finding or feeling structure in the jazz?

I'm not certain about it but maybe Girl From Ipanema was loosely based on Samba rhythm, so maybe this does something for whatever feeling the listener is supposed to find when hearing it.
If you listen to tribal music you will find it is mostly all in one key
There are harmonies tunes but they tend to stay in place, one chord or possibly two/three at most.
There will not be any weird combinations or intervals mostly 3rds and 5ths fitting in the scale and key they are in.
Jazz and a lot of classical music can have very complicated structure, complex chords, fast chords, passing notes (not in the scale) and key changes and it is difficult to process if do not listen to that music or do not play.
Musicians train their ear (actually brain) to recognize these different patterns.

There is a reason nursery rhymes have a simple structure and do not use the 7th#9 chord! (People call it the Jimi (Hendrix) chord)

In terms of rhythm I have no idea and I am drummer!
There must be some sort of evolutionary thing going on why different rhythms feel like they do.
Some make sense just because of the pattern- 4/4 – 4 beats in a bar simple enough.
Where you put the emphasis tho changes everything.
I don’t know the difference between Bossa nova (I should) and Samba- I think they are similar I thought that was what GFI was.
I think its easier explaining music structure than rhythm, why a particular emphasis or grace note sounds cool.
 
  • #13
pbuk
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In terms of rhythm I have no idea and I am drummer!
No surprise there then :wink: (cue a string of "what do you call someone who hangs out with musicians?" type jokes).
 
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  • #14
pinball1970
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No surprise there then :wink: (cue a string of "what do you call someone who hangs out with musicians?" type jokes).
I understand some of the theory of music and can play a bit on guitar and piano. I AM a drummer though, when I am not doing my day job!
 
  • #15
BWV
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well that was back when popular music was written for adults. Can anyone imagine a top 40 song today with that level of harmonic or rhythmic sophistication?
 
  • #16
TeethWhitener
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I play GFI in F
You might be interested in Adam Neely's takedown of Girl From Ipanema and why the key it's played in matters culturally:
Intriguing subtleties are afoot.
 
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  • #17
pinball1970
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You might be interested in Adam Neely's takedown of Girl From Ipanema and why the key it's played in matters culturally:
Intriguing subtleties are afoot.
That was interesting
I have been playing it in the wrong key, wrong chords, different voicings, whilst missing out key figures from the original recording...
 
  • #18
BWV
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the key of Db was likely for Joao Gilberto’s range, Jobim himself seemed to always play it in F




 
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  • #19
BWV
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That was interesting
I have been playing it in the wrong key, wrong chords, different voicings, whilst missing out key figures from the original recording...
F is legit, but definitely use 6/9 chords - (1x001x) or (x8778x) on guitar -instead of Maj7 for the tonic
 
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  • #20
DennisN
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It's a great classic song.
 
  • #21
symbolipoint
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It's a great classic song.
parts of the melody bounce and other parts of the melody are longer and smoother while the kinds of chords supporting the music and their sequence give a cool, relaxing, by-the-water/enjoyment-of-the-seashore feel.
 
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