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Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death

  1. Feb 15, 2006 #1

    SOS2008

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    http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/sedact.html

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11345744/
    http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=100199563 1

    Trotsky? Reminds me of this:

    This is from a speech by former CIA officer Jim Marcinkowski, now running for Congress in Michigan's 8th District. These remarks were delivered in Washtenaw County, Michigan on February 8, 2006. He was referring to the now dissolved Soviet Union.

    http://www.8thdistrictdems.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=297&Itemid=62
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2006
  2. jcsd
  3. Feb 15, 2006 #2
    No links? No court ruling? What's to discuss, idle speculations?
     
  4. Feb 15, 2006 #3

    Hurkyl

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    I don't understand the point of having three disconnected thoughts all in one post either.
     
  5. Feb 15, 2006 #4
    It's very clear the point, and it's that the us each day looks more like the URSS or like a totalitarian state..

    90% of the points of the speach of Jim Marcinkowski (atributed then to the URSS) are now happening in the US..
     
  6. Feb 15, 2006 #5

    SOS2008

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    For members who aren't capable of independent thought, meaningful discourse, or reading on the subject, this is currently under investigation by the ACLU:

    http://aclu.org/freespeech/gen/24043prs20060131.html

    The thought that you or I could be convicted of sedition is outrageous and a little too similar to a kind of society we claim we are not. :bugeye:
     
  7. Feb 15, 2006 #6
    I couldn't resist:

    - Where lying was considered a patriotic skill
     
  8. Feb 15, 2006 #7

    Hurkyl

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    No it's not. It's three disconnected thoughts all lumped together. Juxtaposition is a common propaganda technique. Learn to resist. :tongue:

    Would you care to argue that? The OP certainly didn't even begin such an argument.

    Would you care to tally them up? And explain why it would be relevant at all?
     
  9. Feb 15, 2006 #8

    Hurkyl

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    I certainly don't have plans to advocate violent overthrow of the government, so that thought doesn't even strike me.
     
  10. Feb 15, 2006 #9
    You think is irrelevant that your country is now doing each thing that made the soviet union a totalitarian country.??

    If you want we can go to each point.. i will tell you wich points i think they are now in the US, then tell me where you disagree...

    --------------------------
    Ok those are the point now i think are taking place in the us. some of course for example:
    State incarceration was not subject to the checks and balances of a legal system;
    Are not 100% but they are being implemented at some extent..
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2006
  11. Feb 15, 2006 #10

    SOS2008

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    Since you don't want to take your time to read links, or find sources on your own, or reflect upon this topic, I'll waste more of my time and try to spell it out for you.

    To begin, this is a story reported in the news that is related to politics. It is about an American citizen being investigated for sedition. In view of the ongoing suppression of dissent in this country, this is just another example of how our country is looking more and more like a totalitarian state (for which there a list of such actions in recent years). Suppression of dissent is an important issue in a democracy. Apparently you and others don’t grasp this.

    It is obvious from your quick replies that you are not interested in a meaningful discussion. You do not have to participate in this thread, and I would prefer that you don’t if you aren’t going to contribute in a meaningful way.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarian
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2006
  12. Feb 15, 2006 #11

    Hurkyl

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    It's difficult to have a meaningful discussion when nobody presents an argument. And since you and Burnsys seem keen on having such a discussion, y'all should go first. :tongue:
     
  13. Feb 15, 2006 #12

    Hurkyl

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    Sure. But like any other right, the right to dissent has its limits. I believe that violent overthrow is one of those things a government should be allowed to prevent.
     
  14. Feb 15, 2006 #13

    SOS2008

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    Back to the topic:

    http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001995631

    Americans should be shocked to see that word.
     
  15. Feb 15, 2006 #14
    Civilian public employee? Sounds like fair game to me.
     
  16. Feb 15, 2006 #15

    SOS2008

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    Come on towns folk, go git yer ropes. We gotta hangin' to tend to! :rofl: DNFTT
     
  17. Feb 15, 2006 #16

    cronxeh

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    Non-violent sedition is our constitutional right! I cant imagine how dangerous a VA nurse can be, writing all those letters.. oh boy she must've freaked the editor out :biggrin:
     
  18. Feb 16, 2006 #17

    Art

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    The OP refers to a woman investigated for sedition for writing a letter, critical of the gov't, to the editor of a newspaper.

    This apparent attempt to suppress freedom of speech is reminiscent of the practices employed within the old USSR. To see if there is a further correlation between the USA of today and the USSR of yesteryear SOS listed the 'negative' characteristics which defined the USSR and as can be seen there are a lot of similarities

    This is obviously critical of the current admin. and as it is a popular GOP strategy these days to label it's detractors as being unpatriotic the final quote is to avoid that particular rebuttal by demonstrating that in the opinion of one of America's most respected presidents the opposite is true.

    I'm sure most folk here have had no problem connecting the dots and some may see your responses as mere deliberate obfuscations rather than as serious contributions to an interesting political topic.
     
  19. Feb 16, 2006 #18

    Hurkyl

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    I anything I've read, the letter was never described as being merely critical.


    Analogies are good for clarifying an argument. They cannot serve as a replacement for one.


    When someone is trying to make a point, the burden is in them to present an argument. It is not on the listener to try and string together an argument for that person.

    In other words. I can't obfuscate something that isn't there. :tongue: There may very well be an interesting discussion to be had, and I'm trying to wring it out of the OP.
     
  20. Feb 16, 2006 #19

    BobG

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    This link (http://progressive.org/mag_mc020806) probably provides a better idea of what Berg actually wrote.

    One note about the link to the Sedition Act of 1798. Was it extended past March 3, 1801?

    In any event, Sec 2 of the act seems a little overly broad. Sedition is incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority. Berg's letter urged lawful authorities to bring charges against the Bush administration. That doesn't meet the criteria of sedition.
     
  21. Feb 16, 2006 #20

    Moonbear

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    Right now, the OP is nothing but a series of quotes with no supporting argument or thesis to them. Without a clear indication of a direction of argument, there is nothing here to discuss.
     
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