Good manners

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Evo said:
Not really, it has to do with deeper issues such as basic upbringing and culture. I'm not saying they are necessarily a loser, but history has proven to me that men that can't hold a fork correctly have turned out to be incompatible with me for other reasons.
A smart woman would teach him how.
 

Evo

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juvenal said:
BTW - do these formal table rules apply to informal situations? Like barbeques, picnics, or very casual restaurants?
No, only formal dining. I eat ribs and chicken like a pig. :redface:

I think eating fried chicken with a fork and knife is wrong (my relatives do that). Some foods just require full frontal attacks with the teeth. :blushing: Gnawing food off the bone is wonderful.

edit: my spelling is getting really bad
 
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Smurf - good point. I thought that women often look at men, especially marriage-worthy ones, as "projects".
 
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Evo said:
No, only formal dining. I eat ribs and chicken like a pig. :redface:

I think eating fried chicken with a fork and knife is wrong (my relatives do that). Some foods just require full frontal attacks with the teeth. :blushing: Knawing food off the bone is wonderful.
I guess we'll only be able to have PF BBQ's and picnics, then. :smile:
 

Evo

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Smurf said:
A smart woman would teach him how.
I've tried Smurf, but then they complain about me only bathing once a year and it gets ugly. :frown:
 

Evo

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juvenal said:
I guess we'll only be able to have PF BBQ's and picnics, then. :smile:
No silverware, a smart move! I can eat potato salad with my fingers if need be. :smile: Licking the plate is also allowed. :approve:
 
Evo said:
It's the holding of the fork with a ham fist that repels me the most.
I have a family member that holds a spoon/fork hamfisted only after he bends the end down about an inch. Imagine trying to get children to act properly at the table when this is happening right in front of them by an adult. Another family member bites the utensil and scrapes it with her teeth on the way out! Children are allowed to put their mouth on the edge of the plate and scoop food into it.... :yuck: Odd thing is, the adults are very well educated and this is still allowed to happen. My visits there are brief.
 

Chi Meson

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Evo said:
Not really, it has to do with deeper issues such as basic upbringing and culture. I'm not saying they are necessarily a loser, but history has proven to me that men that can't hold a fork correctly have turned out to be incompatible with me for other reasons.
Stay away from Brits. THis left-handed, upside-down fork methodology is standard practice there; quite proper, I might add. Another thing I had to unlearn from my own mum.
 
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Evo said:
I've tried Smurf, but then they complain about me only bathing once a year and it gets ugly. :frown:
Are you sure you got the story right? That you dumped them?
 
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juvenal said:
Smurf - good point. I thought that women often look at men, especially marriage-worthy ones, as "projects".
A lot of guys get insulted about that, I don't know why. It's always seemed better to me than if you just go from guy to guy thinking 'It's ok, one day I'll find a guy who's perfect'. That's just dillusional, I don't want a woman who's dillusional.

Besides, if a girl can make me a better person, what's the harm?
 
Trust me, the "fork test" works. The men that pass it have always been absolutely wonderful.

Hmm are we implying about me here? I have to give all the credit to my mom though. :smile:
 
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Chi Meson said:
Stay away from Brits. THis left-handed, upside-down fork methodology is standard practice there; quite proper, I might add. Another thing I had to unlearn from my own mum.
I never really understood the left-handed, upside-down fork thing that Evo was mentioning. Mostly becuase I have never noticed it myself, or wasn't paying attention to everyone else's fork habits.

The upside-down thing is a little odd to me. I don't see any potential advantages to having it upside-down. Why is it done?
 

Evo

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motai said:
I never really understood the left-handed, upside-down fork thing that Evo was mentioning. Mostly becuase I have never noticed it myself, or wasn't paying attention to everyone else's fork habits.

The upside-down thing is a little odd to me. I don't see any potential advantages to having it upside-down. Why is it done?
I take it you are a right handed, right side up fork person?

If so, I rest my case. :smile:
 

Evo

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gravenewworld said:
Hmm are we implying about me here? I have to give all the credit to my mom though. :smile:
You pass the "fork test". :approve: It is all passed down through our moms, isn't it? I learned from my mom, and passed it down to my girls. But the thing is...IT WORKS!
 

Tom Mattson

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Evo said:
Trust me, the "fork test" works. The men that pass it have always been absolutely wonderful.
Mmm-hmmm. And your current man, he has passed "The Fork Test"? :tongue:
 

Mk

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juvenal said:
I don't know this fork business. I must be uncouth.
I don't know either, but I think I understand where its coming from. It seems like if you were hungrier or wanted to eat faster, you would eat fork down, whereas if you were a refined gentleman, you would eat fork up.

Evo said:
No, only formal dining. I eat ribs and chicken like a pig. :redface:

I think eating fried chicken with a fork and knife is wrong (my relatives do that). Some foods just require full frontal attacks with the teeth. :blushing: Gnawing food off the bone is wonderful.
I eat ribs with a fork and knife, while fried chicken deserves the full frontal assault.

KFC is one of the most rapidly expanding buisnesses in Thailand, they are all very busy. When I dined at KFC in Thailand, I noticed everybody except me was eating with a fork and knife. I wonder what they thought of me. I never thought about how many ate fork up or fork down, left hand or right hand.
 
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when your on the phone with a girl, say "yeah" or "huh" every now and then. almost makes it sound like your listenining :wink:
 

Evo

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Tom Mattson said:
Mmm-hmmm. And your current man, he has passed "The Fork Test"? :tongue:
My most recent. Yes, he has. Even the Italian Stallion from Chicago that was from a working class family passed. Only one guy I went out on a date with failed, and someone set me up with him. I seem to be able to pick winners from a distance. :approve:
 

Moonbear

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gravenewworld said:
-Assuming you are right handed after you cut a peice of meat, put the knife down and out of your right hand and switch the fork to your right hand and then eat. Too many times people just cut and eat with the fork still in their left hand.
My understanding is that switching hands like that is an American thing and not a table manners thing. Nobody I know from Europe does that. There's no need to switch hands back and forth, that just seems silly. I worry about more basic things like chewing with your mouth closed, leaving the cell phone off when you enter a restaurant, talking at an appropriate volume that your dinner date can hear you but the rest of the customers cannot.

Oh, as for those who hold doors for the ladies, keep in mind that rule only applies in social situations, not business situations. You are supposed to treat women equally as men in a business situation, which means whoever gets to the door first can hold it for the next person (don't let it slam in their face), but there's no gender distinction there.

As for whether the gentleman stands on the curb side or building side of the sidewalk, Evo is correct that it depends upon where you are. If it is a dangerous city, the gentleman walks on the building side to protect the lady from would-be muggers, but if you are off on a country lane, the gentleman walks toward the road side to protect the lady from would-be mud splashing from passing vehicles. I think this rule alone is enough to convince the gentlemen they should all become feminists and put an end to such silly rules. :biggrin:
 

Moonbear

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Evo said:
I just started a new job and had lunch with two people there that I think are fairly sharp. One guy was shoveling food into his mouth with his fork upside down and in his left hand like he was shoveling dirt into a pit, and the other was cramming huge amounts of food into his mouth so that his cheeks were bulging as he chewed. I was about to vomit.
Okay, I'm really unable to figure this one out. How do you "shovel" with a fork upside down? Wouldn't the fork have to be right side up to be shoveling with it?

I guess I am terrible for feeling this way, but I was raised to eat slowly and politely, it wasn't a race to the death. I think people in large families where food was scarce have the tendency to shovel food into their mouth. I've heard that from some people, either you stuffed yourself as fast as possible, or went hungry.
It's funny, this came up as dinner conversation with the crowd I was with tonight. We were with a large group and someone suddenly realized one person still had her plate nearly full when the rest of us were done eating, so commented that she must be the one doing all the talking. But the person who noticed is Asian and then was explaining that it took some getting accustomed to eating with her American husband's family because they just all fill their plates to the brim on the first pass through, while in her Asian family, you only take a small portion of food and make sure everyone else has some before you take any more, and if there's a guest, they always get the food if there is only one serving left, etc. It all sounded like reasonable etiquette to me, but I know what she means about the people who heap their plates to the top without consideration of who else is waiting after them. Also, my grandparents both came from large families, and I can't stand eating with them. They eat like a pack of animals on that side of the family, as if they are afraid someone is going to steal their food if they don't eat quickly enough. :yuck: I'll still be working on my salad, and they'll have scarfed down the entire meal and be looking for dessert! Thankfully my dad's side of the family was more particular about etiquette so I learned proper table manners.
 
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Moonbear said:
As for whether the gentleman stands on the curb side or building side of the sidewalk, Evo is correct that it depends upon where you are. If it is a dangerous city, the gentleman walks on the building side to protect the lady from would-be muggers, but if you are off on a country lane, the gentleman walks toward the road side to protect the lady from would-be mud splashing from passing vehicles. I think this rule alone is enough to convince the gentlemen they should all become feminists and put an end to such silly rules. :biggrin:
In LA, we worry about drive-by shootings, so the lady is best on the building side.
 

Evo

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Moonbear said:
My understanding is that switching hands like that is an American thing and not a table manners thing. Nobody I know from Europe does that. There's no need to switch hands back and forth, that just seems silly.
Actually my mother is French. Very refined. My Aunt and Uncle are a Count and Countess and own a very beautiful well known 14th century castle in France. I was raised with Aristrocratic manners. gravenworld is absolutely correct in what he wrote. I've known that all my life.

Perhaps aristocratic table manners are too much to expect? I believe Miss Manners suggested these as correct.
 
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Moonbear said:
My understanding is that switching hands like that is an American thing and not a table manners thing. Nobody I know from Europe does that. There's no need to switch hands back and forth, that just seems silly.
Yes, that is apparently the difference. I was somewhat amazed when I read the responses in this thread approving of switching knife and fork while eating. I have seen people do this, and I guess now that they were probably mostly Americans. I always thought that they did that because of a lack of manual dexterity, just like little children who also try to refuse to use their left hand as much as possible.


I just “googled” it:
There are two ways to use a knife and fork to cut and eat your food. They are the American style and the European or Continental style. Either style is considered appropriate. In the American style, one cuts the food by holding the knife in the right hand and the fork in the left hand with the fork tines piercing the food to secure it on the plate. Cut a few bite-size pieces of food, then lay your knife across the top edge of your plate with the sharp edge of the blade facing in. Change your fork from your left to your right hand to eat, fork tines facing up. (If you are left-handed, keep your fork in your left hand, tines facing up.) The European or Continental style is the same as the American style in that you cut your meat by holding your knife in your right hand while securing your food with your fork in your left hand. The difference is your fork remains in your left hand, tines facing down, and the knife in your right hand. Simply eat the cut pieces of food by picking them up with your fork still in your left hand.
http://www.bsu.edu/students/careers/students/interviewing/dining/
 

Moonbear

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Evo said:
Actually my mother is French. Very refined. My Aunt and Uncle are a Count and Countess and own a very beautiful well known 14th century castle in France. I was raised with Aristrocratic manners. gravenworld is absolutely correct in what he wrote. I've known that all my life.

Perhaps aristocratic table manners are too much to expect? I believe Miss Manners suggested these as correct.
Perhaps if I had the king and queen of some country or another over for dinner I might concern myself with aristocratic manners, but such formality is too stiff for friends. I do know not to drink out of the finger bowl though, even if it's flavored with lemon and there's a spoon nearby. :approve:
 
Chi Meson said:
Stay away from Brits. THis left-handed, upside-down fork methodology is standard practice there; quite proper, I might add. Another thing I had to unlearn from my own mum.
I've seen this before and they seem very proper about it. I would think that Evo would give a pass to someone if they did so in an elegant fashion.

Street side or building side: I was told that the reason for this was that at one time when a man walked down the street with a woman towards the street it was because he was showing her off to prospective customers. I did though have a friend who was quite sure to stand on the street side to protect the lady from traffic.

I've found that paying for your date, at least in the first date, is generally a good idea. Adding to this I was once told that if you are out with a lady and one of her lady friends for cocktails you should pay for both of their drinks, at least the first round. I've done this and it was received rather well.

If you order a bottle or there is a table bottle you should pour for the lady. Be sure though that after the first or second glass you ask before pouring more, you don't want her to think you're trying to get her sauced. :wink:
Conversely if you are dining with Japanese people the lady or waitor/waitress is supposed to pour. I was out with some exchange students once and wasn't sure what to think when the pretty girl sitting next to me demanded, politely ofcourse, to pour my sapporo for me. :blushing:
In some cultures and situations the youngest is supposed to pour.
 

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