- #36
gravenewworld
- 1,132
- 26
Trust me, the "fork test" works. The men that pass it have always been absolutely wonderful.
Hmm are we implying about me here? I have to give all the credit to my mom though.
Trust me, the "fork test" works. The men that pass it have always been absolutely wonderful.
Chi Meson said:Stay away from Brits. THis left-handed, upside-down fork methodology is standard practice there; quite proper, I might add. Another thing I had to unlearn from my own mum.
I take it you are a right handed, right side up fork person?motai said:I never really understood the left-handed, upside-down fork thing that Evo was mentioning. Mostly becuase I have never noticed it myself, or wasn't paying attention to everyone else's fork habits.
The upside-down thing is a little odd to me. I don't see any potential advantages to having it upside-down. Why is it done?
You pass the "fork test". It is all passed down through our moms, isn't it? I learned from my mom, and passed it down to my girls. But the thing is...IT WORKS!gravenewworld said:Hmm are we implying about me here? I have to give all the credit to my mom though.
Evo said:Trust me, the "fork test" works. The men that pass it have always been absolutely wonderful.
I don't know either, but I think I understand where its coming from. It seems like if you were hungrier or wanted to eat faster, you would eat fork down, whereas if you were a refined gentleman, you would eat fork up.juvenal said:I don't know this fork business. I must be uncouth.
I eat ribs with a fork and knife, while fried chicken deserves the full frontal assault.Evo said:No, only formal dining. I eat ribs and chicken like a pig.
I think eating fried chicken with a fork and knife is wrong (my relatives do that). Some foods just require full frontal attacks with the teeth. Gnawing food off the bone is wonderful.
My most recent. Yes, he has. Even the Italian Stallion from Chicago that was from a working class family passed. Only one guy I went out on a date with failed, and someone set me up with him. I seem to be able to pick winners from a distance.Tom Mattson said:Mmm-hmmm. And your current man, he has passed "The Fork Test"? :tongue:
My understanding is that switching hands like that is an American thing and not a table manners thing. Nobody I know from Europe does that. There's no need to switch hands back and forth, that just seems silly. I worry about more basic things like chewing with your mouth closed, leaving the cell phone off when you enter a restaurant, talking at an appropriate volume that your dinner date can hear you but the rest of the customers cannot.gravenewworld said:-Assuming you are right handed after you cut a piece of meat, put the knife down and out of your right hand and switch the fork to your right hand and then eat. Too many times people just cut and eat with the fork still in their left hand.
Okay, I'm really unable to figure this one out. How do you "shovel" with a fork upside down? Wouldn't the fork have to be right side up to be shoveling with it?Evo said:I just started a new job and had lunch with two people there that I think are fairly sharp. One guy was shoveling food into his mouth with his fork upside down and in his left hand like he was shoveling dirt into a pit, and the other was cramming huge amounts of food into his mouth so that his cheeks were bulging as he chewed. I was about to vomit.
It's funny, this came up as dinner conversation with the crowd I was with tonight. We were with a large group and someone suddenly realized one person still had her plate nearly full when the rest of us were done eating, so commented that she must be the one doing all the talking. But the person who noticed is Asian and then was explaining that it took some getting accustomed to eating with her American husband's family because they just all fill their plates to the brim on the first pass through, while in her Asian family, you only take a small portion of food and make sure everyone else has some before you take any more, and if there's a guest, they always get the food if there is only one serving left, etc. It all sounded like reasonable etiquette to me, but I know what she means about the people who heap their plates to the top without consideration of who else is waiting after them. Also, my grandparents both came from large families, and I can't stand eating with them. They eat like a pack of animals on that side of the family, as if they are afraid someone is going to steal their food if they don't eat quickly enough. :yuck: I'll still be working on my salad, and they'll have scarfed down the entire meal and be looking for dessert! Thankfully my dad's side of the family was more particular about etiquette so I learned proper table manners.I guess I am terrible for feeling this way, but I was raised to eat slowly and politely, it wasn't a race to the death. I think people in large families where food was scarce have the tendency to shovel food into their mouth. I've heard that from some people, either you stuffed yourself as fast as possible, or went hungry.
Moonbear said:As for whether the gentleman stands on the curb side or building side of the sidewalk, Evo is correct that it depends upon where you are. If it is a dangerous city, the gentleman walks on the building side to protect the lady from would-be muggers, but if you are off on a country lane, the gentleman walks toward the road side to protect the lady from would-be mud splashing from passing vehicles. I think this rule alone is enough to convince the gentlemen they should all become feminists and put an end to such silly rules.
Actually my mother is French. Very refined. My Aunt and Uncle are a Count and Countess and own a very beautiful well known 14th century castle in France. I was raised with Aristrocratic manners. gravenworld is absolutely correct in what he wrote. I've known that all my life.Moonbear said:My understanding is that switching hands like that is an American thing and not a table manners thing. Nobody I know from Europe does that. There's no need to switch hands back and forth, that just seems silly.
Yes, that is apparently the difference. I was somewhat amazed when I read the responses in this thread approving of switching knife and fork while eating. I have seen people do this, and I guess now that they were probably mostly Americans. I always thought that they did that because of a lack of manual dexterity, just like little children who also try to refuse to use their left hand as much as possible.Moonbear said:My understanding is that switching hands like that is an American thing and not a table manners thing. Nobody I know from Europe does that. There's no need to switch hands back and forth, that just seems silly.
http://www.bsu.edu/students/careers/students/interviewing/dining/There are two ways to use a knife and fork to cut and eat your food. They are the American style and the European or Continental style. Either style is considered appropriate. In the American style, one cuts the food by holding the knife in the right hand and the fork in the left hand with the fork tines piercing the food to secure it on the plate. Cut a few bite-size pieces of food, then lay your knife across the top edge of your plate with the sharp edge of the blade facing in. Change your fork from your left to your right hand to eat, fork tines facing up. (If you are left-handed, keep your fork in your left hand, tines facing up.) The European or Continental style is the same as the American style in that you cut your meat by holding your knife in your right hand while securing your food with your fork in your left hand. The difference is your fork remains in your left hand, tines facing down, and the knife in your right hand. Simply eat the cut pieces of food by picking them up with your fork still in your left hand.
Perhaps if I had the king and queen of some country or another over for dinner I might concern myself with aristocratic manners, but such formality is too stiff for friends. I do know not to drink out of the finger bowl though, even if it's flavored with lemon and there's a spoon nearby.Evo said:Actually my mother is French. Very refined. My Aunt and Uncle are a Count and Countess and own a very beautiful well known 14th century castle in France. I was raised with Aristrocratic manners. gravenworld is absolutely correct in what he wrote. I've known that all my life.
Perhaps aristocratic table manners are too much to expect? I believe Miss Manners suggested these as correct.
I've seen this before and they seem very proper about it. I would think that Evo would give a pass to someone if they did so in an elegant fashion.Chi Meson said:Stay away from Brits. THis left-handed, upside-down fork methodology is standard practice there; quite proper, I might add. Another thing I had to unlearn from my own mum.
Evo said:My Aunt and Uncle are a Count and Countess and own a very beautiful well known 14th century castle in France. I was raised with Aristrocratic manners.
Yeah, I only became aware of the difference across continents on some occasion when I wasn't bothering to switch hands (I recall being in the dining hall in college, probably trying to eat quickly between classes), when someone sitting with me asked if I was European; when I asked why they thought that, they explained about the fork thing.gerben said:Yes, that is apparently the difference. I was somewhat amazed when I read the responses in this thread approving of switching knife and fork while eating. I have seen people do this, and I guess now that they were probably mostly Americans. I always thought that they did that because of a lack of manual dexterity, just like little children who also try to refuse to use their left hand as much as possible.
It's not lemon soup? Oh dear.Moonbear said:I do know not to drink out of the finger bowl though, even if it's flavored with lemon and there's a spoon nearby.
Sometimes it seems like there's rules and laws for everything. Even something as simple as eating.gerben said:There are two ways to use a knife and fork to cut and eat your food. They are the American style and the European or Continental style. Either style is considered appropriate. In the American style, one cuts the food by holding the knife in the right hand and the fork in the left hand with the fork tines piercing the food to secure it on the plate. Cut a few bite-size pieces of food, then lay your knife across the top edge of your plate with the sharp edge of the blade facing in. Change your fork from your left to your right hand to eat, fork tines facing up. (If you are left-handed, keep your fork in your left hand, tines facing up.) The European or Continental style is the same as the American style in that you cut your meat by holding your knife in your right hand while securing your food with your fork in your left hand. The difference is your fork remains in your left hand, tines facing down, and the knife in your right hand. Simply eat the cut pieces of food by picking them up with your fork still in your left hand.
Ferromagnetic fork, paramagnetic foodstuffs.Moonbear said:Okay, I'm really unable to figure this one out. How do you "shovel" with a fork upside down? Wouldn't the fork have to be right side up to be shoveling with it?
Seriously, they are royalty. And have a castle, and are related to the Price of Wales and King William the 1st of England.Townsend said:Are you serious? I bet you're loaded... :!) I like a woman with some $$$
I was told that in Japanese culture, you never pour drinks for yourself. You pour for the others at the table, and someone else pours for you. But I could be wrong about that one. If I run into one of my Japanese friends at this conference, I'll ask (I'm not sure if he's here this year though; I haven't seen him yet).TheStatutoryApe said:Conversely if you are dining with Japanese people the lady or waitor/waitress is supposed to pour. I was out with some exchange students once and wasn't sure what to think when the pretty girl sitting next to me demanded, politely ofcourse, to pour my sapporo for me.
In some cultures and situations the youngest is supposed to pour.
I was taught to rest your forearms or wrists on the edge of the table; you can see your hands above the table, but your elbows are off it. Darned uncomfortable if you ask me. If they don't want my elbows on the table or my hands in my lap, they ought to make the table padded!Evo said:In Europe, the practise of keeping hands and elbows off the table doesn't work there. They want to see your hands above table to make sure you are not doing something naughty with them.
Evo said:Does me absolutely no good.
Evo said:Seriously, they are royalty. And have a castle, and are related to the Price of Wales and King William the 1st of England.
Does me absolutely no good.
Do you eat your sandwich with knife and fork? That is a basic rule of etiquette too. Would you break up if someone who eats his sandwich with his hands?Evo said:YOU ARE CORRECT! I will break up with men that do not know this basic rule of dining etiquette. Also, the fork should not be upside down. I am horrified at how many people don't know how to eat.
Australians, too.Chi Meson said:Stay away from Brits. THis left-handed, upside-down fork methodology is standard practice there; quite proper, I might add. Another thing I had to unlearn from my own mum.
Well, my mom tried her best. I was just too recalcitrant.Evo said:It is all passed down through our moms, isn't it? I learned from my mom, . . .
OK, I can handle this.Evo said:No silverware, a smart move! I can eat potato salad with my fingers if need be. Licking the plate is also allowed.
Your style and elegance shows.Evo said:Actually my mother is French. Very refined.
Probably in my case. Miss Manners would probably faint in my presence.Evo said:Perhaps aristocratic table manners are too much to expect? I believe Miss Manners suggested these as correct.
I could make a barbarian look civilized.gravenworld said:They eat like barbarians.
See, holding it in the direction that it could be used as a spoon seems like it's right side up to me. It always appears odd to me for someone to hold the fork the other way around, the way stuff would fall off easily if you didn't manage to fully stab it (I'm still trying to figure out how to eat crisp bacon with a fork...it's much easier to just grab a slice with your fingers, but when you're at a breakfast meeting, better etiquette seems required...scooping seems the only possible way).Astronuc said:Actually, this is my problem - "Assuming you are right handed after you cut a piece of meat, put the knife down and out of your right hand and switch the fork to your right hand and then eat. Too many times people just cut and eat with the fork still in their left hand. " This is traditional British and Australian. However, I did learn to switch fork to right hand, but turn it upside down and use like a spoon - but delicately.
Evo said:Actually, in the city, a man should walk on the inside. I learned the reason when I lived in Chicago and dated a very "streetwise" Italian. We were walkng on Rush Street and he insisted on walking on the inside, between me and the buildings. He explained that muggers and purse snatchers hid in the doorways and would grab at women, he wanted to put himself between me and possible harm. I had never even given any thought to it before then.
Okay, I was ALWAYS taught that 5 and 11 were the proper positioning. Yet on this thread I've heard everything BUT those. Now, I'm sure it really doesn't matter if you hit 4 or 5 but the inconsistancy annoys me.wolram said:The knife and fork should be placed as if they are pointing to the numbers 10 and 4 on a clock face.
Evo said:My most recent. Yes, he has. Even the Italian Stallion from Chicago that was from a working class family passed. Only one guy I went out on a date with failed, and someone set me up with him. I seem to be able to pick winners from a distance.
Tom Mattson said:I have a test too, it's called the "Nitpicking About Inconsequential Details That Don't Mean A Hill Of Beans In Life Test". If a lady fails that one, then she gets kicked to the curb.
Evo said:Seriously, they are royalty. And have a castle, and are related to the Price of Wales and King William the 1st of England.
Does me absolutely no good.