Company appointee:Stephen Tashi said:What was the first form of government of the Jamestown colony? Authoritarian strong man?
Source, National Park Service.Once the spot was chosen the instructions sent by the Virginia Company, with the list of the council members (chosen by officials in England), was read. The names were kept in a sealed box on the ship (each ship had a sealed copy). The first President of the new Virginia colony was to be Edward Maria Winfield. The other six council members were: Bartholomew Gosnold, Christopher Newport, John Martin, John Ratcliffe, George Kendall, and John Smith.
I wasn't planning to drop them somewhere without a plan for the colony, including who governs. Humans need someone to tell them "NO!" Rather, my focus was on what systems do you think would work on a frontier world and which would not.BillTre said:I would guess those sponsoring the trip would have thought of this and made plans for it, as described above. State, Church, or company would have different ideas.
Anyone smart would have to build in contingency plans for problems that might arise like a need for a new leader and unexpected conditions.
"Please give me a list of all unknown factors before you leave today." The fun thing about a new world is that the Surprise Party Department probably runs three shifts. "Beware of the stobor."The interesting bit to me would be what happens next when things start to change for some reason.
Noisy Rhysling said:I wasn't planning to drop them somewhere without a plan for the colony, including who governs. Humans need someone to tell them "NO!" Rather, my focus was on what systems do you think would work on a frontier world and which would not.
"Please give me a list of all unknown factors before you leave today." The fun thing about a new world is that the Surprise Party Department probably runs three shifts. "Beware of the stobor."
Alternative to that would be the "Professional Planet Starters", civilians with experience at getting a colony going, including combat experience if available. Mercs if you will. Military may or may not be experienced with this kind of thing. The brass wouldn't send their best troops out for a nursemaid mission unless the CinC "or such person as he may direct" wants it that way. Interesting to picture the hiring interviews for such a force.XZ923 said:For best chance of survival and efficiency I would suggest a military-style authoritarian structure at first. Once you get basic societal infrastructure into place and people are "into the groove of things" you can relax a bit but the initial arrival on the new world will be inherently chaotic and you need as much structure as possible during that initial phase.
I agree. But what about a commune, where all adults vote on major issues/projects/expenditures?rootone said:Initially there would need to be a colonization plan with everybody assigned a role and sticking to it.
Presumably those who were to be the administration would have been selected prior to the journey, and agreed to by the other colonists.
Perhaps the second generation might be able to elect future governments, but initially no
It needs a centralized authority with a definite plan to begin with.
Any colony which started with a concept of 'Everybody is free to do whatever they like', would in my opinion fail in a very short time.
Noisy Rhysling said:There are several different potential colony establishers to be considered, State, Church, Cult, Royal, etc. I'm sure the great minds present can think of others.
Just dumped, dropped at an up-and-running colony or what?Stephen Tashi said:Perhaps a delivery service dropped shipments of colonists at various places, but due to the usual sort of shipping errors, they ended up with 20,000 leftovers at the end of the delivery route, which were put down at the first convenient site.
Noisy Rhysling said:Just dumped, dropped at an up-and-running colony or what?
That's going to degenerate into a strongman scenario pretty quickly. Perhaps we have 15,000 "nice" settlers and 5,000 criminals. Drop them somewhat distant from each other, but let each group know of the other. This would compel a rapid organization for defense from the "nice" guys.Stephen Tashi said:The leftover cargo is Just dumped on the first available uninhabited habitable planet or portion of it. The political situation is disorganized, but so is the material situation - like stories about soldiers in battle needing weapons and opening supply boxes to find they contain hats or medals.
Noisy Rhysling said:Perhaps we have 15,000 "nice" settlers and 5,000 criminals.
That's going to degenerate into a strongman scenario pretty quickly.
I agree that deportees aren't automatically Ordinary Criminals. The cohesiveness of the group would depend on the presence or absence of a charismatic character that could gain enough of a following to become the primary power in that camp.Stephen Tashi said:Criminals aren't necessarily a cohesive group. Criminals from one society could be mostly "political prisoners".
Chaos is more fun if you're reading about it from a safe distance. ;)I agree if we use human history as a guide. The king/dictator is familiar model of government - probably because it isn't a degeneration compared to complete chaos.
True. I'd be very surprised if a planned colony found people while refusing to say how the colony would be governed. But the "20,000 lost souls" above is the flip side of this, governance on the fly. Tunnel in the Sky, by Robert Anson Heinlein, peaked at this. His people didn't know if they would be a permanent colony or just late for school. The lack of mature dynamic leaders complicated the resolution.Khashishi said:They probably already decided on a captain and command structure before setting out on the trip. I guess the captain would assume military governance while the colony got underway. Once basic needs are met, perhaps over a period of years, then it will probably evolve into some sort of democracy, with an elected governor.
Until you get the houses built and the first crop in and out of the fields you are probably not going to want to have lengthy discussions about how things should be done. Authoritarian strong man is a bit harsh as terms go but...yeah. The time to have democratic discussions about how to run the colony initially is before everyone goes into the cyro tanks. Governor and administrating counsel.Stephen Tashi said:What was the first form of government of the Jamestown colony? Authoritarian strong man?
Noisy Rhysling said:I wasn't planning to drop them somewhere without a plan for the colony, including who governs. Humans need someone to tell them "NO!" Rather, my focus was on what systems do you think would work on a frontier world and which would not.
He wasn't a one trick pony. Tunnel in the Sky for example.Khatti said:Well the Heinlein model is that you better be pretty damn self-reliant. In a colony situation someone is going to end up living in the middle of nowhere, with no hope of the neighbors being capable of coming to your aid--at least not quickly. Have you given any thought to the local flora and fauna? Seeing as this could be a source of trouble for your colonists, this would naturally influence their politics and social customs. Another, unrelated question, how are your colonists building houses? My particular favorite building system for prospective Sci fi settlers is rammed-earth that is washed with a laser until the walls are fused together. Something that would hopefully keep out that local carnivore that looks like a woolly T-Rex.
Noisy Rhysling said:He wasn't a one trick pony. Tunnel in the Sky for example.
Yeah. My grandmother got electricity when her boys trimmed trees to be used as power poles. Two miles into the hills. The cousins rallied 'round and we had the job done in a few days. It wasn't until they ran the lines that we found out she didn't have a single electrical item in her home. DOH!Khatti said:Oh Heinlein is probably the most social of all those early science fiction writers. I can't remember a single Heinlein story where there's one guy all alone in his spaceship, far from home, facing the great unknown. I was thinking of Time Enough For Love, where Lazarus Long and one of his wives homestead way out in the sticks; all they had was their talking mule--and that died. And, Heinlein aside, on your world that's in the process of colonization, someone is bound to end up living in the sticks with no immediate help at hand. I farmed with my family for the early part of my life, and even in the domesticated Sixties, Seventies, and Eighties are closest neighbor was still half a mile away. I can't remember a deputy sheriff driving by our farm during that time.
The process for establishing a government on a new world involves several key steps. First, a group of individuals must be chosen to serve as the initial leaders of the colony. Then, a constitution or set of governing principles must be created and agreed upon by all members of the colony. This should outline the rights and responsibilities of both the government and the citizens. Next, the government must be organized and structured, with roles and responsibilities clearly defined. Finally, the government must begin to establish laws and systems for managing resources, resolving disputes, and providing for the needs of the colony.
When designing a government for a new world, several important factors should be considered. These include the size and demographics of the colony, the available resources, the potential threats or challenges the colony may face, and the values and beliefs of the colonists. It is also important to consider the balance of power within the government, as well as mechanisms for checks and balances to prevent abuse of power.
The government on a new world must establish systems for maintaining order and enforcing laws in order to ensure the safety and well-being of the colony. This may include creating a police force or militia, establishing a court system for resolving disputes, and implementing laws and punishments for criminal behavior. It is also important for the government to establish communication and cooperation with neighboring colonies to address any potential conflicts.
The distribution of resources on a new world is a crucial aspect of governance. The government must establish fair and efficient systems for managing and allocating resources, such as food, water, and shelter. This may involve creating a system of trade or establishing regulations for resource use to prevent depletion. The government must also consider the needs of various groups within the colony, such as different social classes or minority populations, to ensure equitable distribution.
To ensure a sustainable and ethical government on a new world, it is important for the government to prioritize the long-term well-being of the colony and its inhabitants. This may involve implementing environmental regulations to protect the planet's resources, promoting social and economic equality, and upholding ethical principles such as human rights and justice. The government must also be open to feedback and adapt as the colony evolves, to address any potential issues and improve the functioning of the government.