Exploring the Debate: Graviton vs Higgs Boson and the Origin of Gravity

In summary, the recent discovery of the Higgs boson and the Higgs field does not disprove the existence of a massless graviton. The Higgs mechanism only gives mass to certain particles, such as quarks, leptons, and the W and Z bosons, but not to particles like gluons, photons, or gravitons. This is because the Higgs field is neutral and does not interact with these particles. Therefore, the origin of gravity is still unknown. Additionally, the Higgs coupling to gauge bosons has been constructed in a way that allows particles like photons and gluons to remain massless, while others become massive.
  • #1
teeninventor
2
0
How can we propose the existence of a massless graviton when the recent discovery of the higgs boson means that there is a Higgs field that endows everything with mass? Doesn't the higgs field disprove the graviton? In that case, we would now have no idea where gravity fundamentally comes from, right?
 
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  • #2
when the recent discovery of the higgs boson means that there is a Higgs field that endows everything with mass?
No, that is not an implication of the Higgs mechanism. It gives a mass to quarks, leptons, the Z and W boson and the Higgs boson, but not to gluons, photons or (hypothetical) gravitons.
 
  • #3
teeninventor said:
In that case, we would now have no idea where gravity fundamentally comes from, right?

Well, we still have no idea about that...
 
  • #4
mfb said:
It gives a mass to quarks, leptons, the Z and W boson and the Higgs boson, but not to gluons, photons or (hypothetical) gravitons.

Any idea why photons and gluons are unaffected by the field? I know photons and gluons are considered massless, but by definition doesn't the field endow particles with mass? Is it the photons and gluons' extremely small size that allows it to pass through the field or between it's energy? That part is confusing to me
 
  • #5
by definition doesn't the field endow particles with mass?
No, it does not. Please disabuse yourself of that notion. :wink:

The role played by the Higgs field is to break electroweak symmetry. As a side effect, it allows those particles that participate in the weak interaction to have mass. Gluons do not feel the weak force, and are for that reason unaffected. Photons remain massless basically because the Higgs field is neutral, and so the vacuum remains invariant under the electromagnetic gauge,

This topic has been discussed here many, many times before. If you look down at the bottom of this page you will find links to some of the earlier discussions.
 
  • #6
here is a post by Sam which clarifies the idea of photon not getting mass in electroweak symmetry breaking
samalkhaiat said:
In [itex]SU(2)_{L}\times U(1)_{Y}[/itex] theory, we have two coupling constants [itex]g_{L}[/itex] and [itex]g_{Y}[/itex], and four MASSLESS gauge fields: [itex]W_{\mu}^{a}, \ a = 1,2,3[/itex] and [itex]B_{\mu}[/itex]. We can redefine these fields by introducing two electrically charged fields
[tex]W^{\pm}_{\mu} = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}( W^{1}_{\mu} \mp i W^{2}_{\mu}),[/tex]
and two neutral fields
[tex]Z_{\mu} = W^{3}_{\mu}\cos \theta - B_{\mu} \sin \theta[/tex]
[tex]A_{\mu} = W^{3}_{\mu} \sin \theta + B_{\mu} \cos \theta[/tex]
We still have no photon in here, because the gauge group is not [itex]U(1)_{em}[/itex], all fields are still massless and (more important) the two couplings [itex]g_{L}[/itex] and [itex]g_{Y}[/itex] are unrelated.
To break [itex]SU(2)_{L}\times U(1)_{Y}[/itex] down to [itex]U(1)_{em}[/itex], we need to introduce a set of scalar fields [itex]\Phi[/itex] which has [itex]U(1)_{em}[/itex] invariant non-zero vacuum expectation value [itex]< \Phi > = v[/itex], i.e. it vanishes under the action of the [itex]U(1)_{em}[/itex] generator (the electric charge)
[tex]Q_{em}< \Phi > = 0. \ \ \ \ (1)[/tex]
Next, we introduce a small perturbation [itex]H(x)/ \sqrt{2}[/itex] around the VEV of the scalar field [itex]< \Phi >[/itex]. This will provides masses to ALL four gauge fields [itex]W^{\pm}_{\mu}, Z_{\mu}[/itex] and [itex]A_{\mu}[/itex]. So, in order to satisfy eq(1) one of the neutral fields must remain massless, so that it can be identified with the gauge field of the (unbroken) [itex]U(1)_{em}[/itex] group, i.e. the photon. This happens for [itex]A_{\mu}[/itex] provided that we CHOOSE the couplings such that
[tex]g_{Y} = g_{L} \tan \theta .[/tex]

Sam
 
  • #7
teeninventor said:
Any idea why photons and gluons are unaffected by the field?
It's rather simple: Experiments tell us that photons and gluons are massless, whereas W and Z become massive; therefore the Higgs coupling to these gauge bosons has been constructed such that the result is exactly what we observe: photons and gluons stay massless, whereas W and Z become massive.
 

What is a graviton and a Higgs boson?

A graviton is a hypothetical particle that is believed to transmit the force of gravity in the framework of quantum mechanics. It is predicted by many theories, but has not yet been observed or confirmed. On the other hand, a Higgs boson is a subatomic particle that is responsible for giving other particles their mass. It was discovered in 2012 at the Large Hadron Collider.

What is the difference between a graviton and a Higgs boson?

The main difference between a graviton and a Higgs boson is their role in the universe. A graviton is thought to be the carrier of the force of gravity, while a Higgs boson is responsible for giving particles their mass. Additionally, a graviton is a hypothetical particle that has not been observed, while a Higgs boson has been discovered and confirmed.

Can gravitons and Higgs bosons interact with each other?

There is currently no evidence that gravitons and Higgs bosons interact with each other. Gravitons are predicted by theories of quantum gravity, while the Higgs boson is part of the Standard Model of particle physics. These two theories have not yet been successfully merged, so it is not clear how they may interact.

How are gravitons and Higgs bosons related to the concept of mass?

Gravitons and Higgs bosons are both related to the concept of mass, but in different ways. Gravitons are thought to transmit the force of gravity, which is what gives objects their weight and creates the effects of mass. On the other hand, Higgs bosons are responsible for giving particles their mass. They interact with other particles, giving them their mass and allowing them to have weight and be affected by gravity.

Why is the study of gravitons and Higgs bosons important?

The study of gravitons and Higgs bosons is important because it helps us better understand the fundamental forces and particles in the universe. These particles play a crucial role in shaping our understanding of the universe and how it functions. Additionally, studying these particles can lead to new discoveries and advancements in science and technology.

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