Griffiths E&M: Finding Torque Direction Explanation

In summary, the conversation discusses the solution to a problem from Griffiths E and M book, specifically regarding torque and work done on a dipole rotating in an electric field. The solution involves taking the negative gradient of an equation and comparing it to another equation. The conversation also delves into the direction of torque and work, with one solution stating that the torque exerted by the electric field is in the positive z direction while another states it is in the negative z direction. The concept of using an integral to calculate work is also mentioned.
  • #1
ehrenfest
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  • #2
anyone?
 
  • #3
Solution aside, how would you approach the problem? If your answer is I don't know then try some of the problems before and see if you can get those ones, and if you can't get those then look over the section again.
 
  • #4
OK. Well what I did was take the negative gradient of eqn 4.6 and showed that it was equal to eqn 4.5 using product rule 4. Then I was checking my answer with this solution and it was completely different, so I was trying to understand it. Can you read and help me? I think I am missing something obvious (again).
 
  • #5
Hmm, in your way after you crank through it all you find that [itex]\mathbf{E} \times(\nabla \times \mathbf{p})=-(\mathbf{E}\cdot\nabla)\mathbf{p}[/itex]? If that is true then you are okay, and it seems like an acceptable solution.

As far as the other solution goes, it's probably the picture that is screwing you up, in the picture zhat is pointing out of the page, and the electric field wants to torque the the dipole to line up with it, so it wants to torque the dipole into the zhat direction. "We" are rotating the dipole clockwise, the way it wants to go, so we are doing negative work. This is all really justification though. We could have also gone the other way, and done positive work.

What really matters is the integral they show. Since an angle of zero is the z axis, and we start on the x axis, we integrate from that point to wherever we go along the rotation.

Make sense?
 
  • #6
Mindscrape said:
Hmm, in your way after you crank through it all you find that [itex]\mathbf{E} \times(\nabla \times \mathbf{p})=-(\mathbf{E}\cdot\nabla)\mathbf{p}[/itex]? If that is true then you are okay, and it seems like an acceptable solution.

Both sides of that equation are clearly 0 because p is a constant.
 
  • #7
Mindscrape said:
Hmm, in your way after you crank through it all you find that [itex]\mathbf{E} \times(\nabla \times \mathbf{p})=-(\mathbf{E}\cdot\nabla)\mathbf{p}[/itex]? If that is true then you are okay, and it seems like an acceptable solution.

As far as the other solution goes, it's probably the picture that is screwing you up, in the picture zhat is pointing out of the page, and the electric field wants to torque the the dipole to line up with it, so it wants to torque the dipole into the zhat direction. "We" are rotating the dipole clockwise, the way it wants to go, so we are doing negative work.

You mean the way it DOES NOT want to go?

I guess I don't really understand why "we" are doing this.

Also, I don't understand the integral (i.e. the equation U = ). Is that how you calculate the work done to a rigid body by rotation? That is probably something I can find in my mechanics book.
 
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  • #8
anyone?
 
  • #9
anyone?
 
  • #10
The solution is post possibly is not correct.

Start from a general expression for U(r)
 
  • #11
neelakash said:
The solution is post possibly is not correct.

Can you say why it is not correct?
 
  • #12
please?
 
  • #13
OK. In general, how to you calculate the work done to an object rotating about its axis in a force field?
 
  • #14
ehrenfest said:

Homework Statement


This question refers to Griffiths E and M book.
See the solution here http://www.physics.gatech.edu/academics/Classes/fall2005/3122/hw9solution.pdf

I don't understand why they say the torque we exert is clockwise (I assume that means in the minus z direction).

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution



the torque exerted by the E field is p cross E so it is in the positive z direction. Therefore if you slowly bring the dipole from its initial position to its final position at constant speed, you must exert a torque in the negative z direction. That's all there is to it as far as I can see.
 
  • #15
yes that makes sense. But can you answer my last question? How co you calculate the work?
 

1. What is Griffiths E&M and why is it important in understanding torque direction?

Griffiths E&M refers to the textbook "Introduction to Electrodynamics" by David J. Griffiths, which covers the principles of electromagnetism. Understanding torque direction is important in many areas of physics and engineering, as it allows us to predict the rotational motion of objects.

2. How is torque direction related to electromagnetism?

Torque direction is related to electromagnetism because it involves the interaction between electric and magnetic fields. In the context of Griffiths E&M, torque direction is often discussed in the context of a current-carrying loop in a magnetic field, where the torque on the loop is determined by the direction of the magnetic field and the direction of the current.

3. What factors affect torque direction?

The direction of torque on an object is affected by several factors, including the direction and strength of the magnetic field, the direction of the current, and the orientation of the object with respect to the magnetic field. In addition, the shape and size of the object can also affect the torque direction.

4. How do you find the direction of torque using Griffiths E&M?

The direction of torque can be found using the right-hand rule, which states that if you point your thumb in the direction of the current and your fingers in the direction of the magnetic field, the direction your palm faces will indicate the direction of the torque. This rule can be applied to current-carrying loops or other situations involving electromagnetism.

5. Why is it important to understand torque direction in practical applications?

Understanding torque direction is crucial in many practical applications, such as designing motors, generators, and other electromechanical devices. It also plays a role in the operation of electric motors and generators, as well as in the production of electricity through electromagnetic induction. Additionally, understanding torque direction can help in the analysis and prediction of the behavior of objects in magnetic fields.

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