G20 Open Carry: Secret Service & Campus Security Responses

[TVP45]

In case you don't get Pittsburgh news in your locale, there is a big push on for second amendment activists to converge on Pittsburgh and openly carry handguns when the G20 is in town in September. The idea is to "show those foreigners about freedoms".

Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of what the Secret Service can do about such a challenge? Open carry is legal in Pennsylvania.

Do the foreign leaders come with their own security services?

I'm concerned as I have to teach nearby on the first day. Campus security normally does a full-alert if a gun is reported on campus (all weapons are prohibited). I'm thinking I should take a deck of cards, some lunch, and a few soft drinks. It'll be a long day sitting in a smelly stockroom with twenty students. I think I feel swine flu coming on...

 

[drankin]

I've been seeing a few gatherings lately around Washington state. Open-carry BBQs. I don't know if they have always done this and it's just getting new attention due to the current political climate or what.

In the case of the G20, wouldn't they rather see the guns openly rather than all those same people carrying concealed? Personally, I'm not a big fan of open carry for no reason. But, I do want the ability to do so without law enforcement hassling me if there is a situation that warrants it. Like rioting, looting, or what have you.

 

[Evo]

In case you don't get Pittsburgh news in your locale, there is a big push on for second amendment activists to converge on Pittsburgh and openly carry handguns when the G20 is in town in September. The idea is to "show those foreigners about freedoms".

How embarrassing. Other countries have moved beyond carrying firearms, very successfully.

 

[turbo]

How embarrassing. Other countries have moved beyond carrying firearms, very successfully.

Other countries moved beyond letting insurance companies deny health insurance to people who are in at-risk groups, have pre-existing conditions, or who are too poor to pay for any coverage. I'm ashamed that my country cannot care for its citizens. Does Switzerland have universal health, care? Is there a correlation with the high percentage of automatic weapons in peoples's homes?

 

[turbo]

I do not carry a gun openly, except if I am walking down the road to neighbor's property to hunt or am returning home after crossing his place.

 

[rootX]

In case you don't get Pittsburgh news in your locale, there is a big push on for second amendment activists to converge on Pittsburgh and openly carry handguns when the G20 is in town in September. The idea is to "show those foreigners about freedoms".

Ignorance and arrogance?
They might end up showing this.

 

[russ_watters]

Other countries moved beyond letting insurance companies deny health insurance to people who are in at-risk groups, have pre-existing conditions, or who are too poor to pay for any coverage. I'm ashamed that my country cannot care for its citizens. Does Switzerland have universal health, care? Is there a correlation with the high percentage of automatic weapons in peoples's homes?

Um, are you arguing that there is a correlation between health care and gun ownership? :uhh:

 

[Pengwuino]

Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of what the Secret Service can do about such a challenge? Open carry is legal in Pennsylvania.

Do the foreign leaders come with their own security services?

I'm concerned as I have to teach nearby on the first day. Campus security normally does a full-alert if a gun is reported on campus (all weapons are prohibited). I'm thinking I should take a deck of cards, some lunch, and a few soft drinks. It'll be a long day sitting in a smelly stockroom with twenty students. I think I feel swine flu coming on...

Security at such an international event is probably being dealt with with local police. What do you think is going to happen, some wacko with his gun out surrounded by even more people with guns is going to go try to kill someone?

 

[turbo]

Um, are you arguing that there is a correlation between health care and gun ownership? :uhh:

Apparently, you have a pretty high irony-filter. Nothing to see here, folks; go back to your homes..,

 

[Pengwuino]

Apparently, you have a pretty high irony-filter. Nothing to see here, folks; go back to your homes..,

My filter must be turned off. I didn't catch it either. Did it have to do with the OP's lunch?

 

[turbo]

It is about 11:01 here and Russ is doing some very creative editoring. CYA!

 

[russ_watters]

Yeah, I missed that one too. I must need another beer.

 

[rootX]

Um, are you arguing that there is a correlation between health care and gun ownership? :uhh:

I believe that was bit personal/emotional post.

 

[drankin]

Security at such an international event is probably being dealt with with local police. What do you think is going to happen, some wacko with his gun out surrounded by even more people with guns is going to go try to kill someone?

LOL, this is an excellent point! American gun owners will secure the perimeter! The Secret Service can take the day off.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Security at such an international event is probably being dealt with with local police. What do you think is going to happen, some wacko with his gun out surrounded by even more people with guns is going to go try to kill someone?

I believe that all foreign ambassadors on official business receive a Secret Service security detail.

http://www.secretservice.gov/protection.shtml

yup.

And if the President is attending then there will obviously be plenty of secret service.

Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of what the Secret Service can do about such a challenge?

I have no specific or first hand knowledge but I am fairly certain that they can remove anyone from the area that they see as a possible threat, especially if the president is there.
Just theorizing I'd say they may likely decide not to make a confrontation of it. Instead they may simply make sure that the crowd is all in a designated area and bring the guests in through a backway out of sight of the crowd. So maybe we'll see some conservative commentary about the guests at the G20 "sneaking in the backdoor for fear of Free Americans".
Of course if Obama is there they are unlikely to take any chances at all. If they can control the area well enough they should be able to prevent any of these demonstrators from getting any where near the building and with warning about their plans ahead of time they should be ready.

 

[Phrak]

How embarrassing. Other countries have moved beyond carrying firearms, very successfully.

Oh? How is the US not included. It's been several years since I noticed anyone carrying a firearm other than the public bully-boys. But, of course you mean denyal to carry. Why didn't you say so?

 

[berkeman]

Oh? How is the US not included. It's been several years since I noticed anyone carrying a firearm other than the public bully-boys. But, of course you mean denyal to carry. Why didn't you say so?

Several states are still liberal about open carry, like Texas and apparently the state in the OP. But yeah, in Cali, certainly no open carry, and pretty restriced CCW. Then again, given the high percentage of nut jobs here locally... Er, oops.

 

[berkeman]

BTW, if you travel, it's a good idea to check the open-carry laws of the state you're visiting. There have been some pretty embarassing situations where visitors from restrictive states have gone to open carry states, and been startled in the local mall while shopping...

 

[JaredJames]

Can someone please give me a good reason why people need to own guns? I just don't see the need (I live in the UK). Ok, I'll allow you for hunting if that's what you're into (me personally it's a no, but hey whatever floats your boat).

Please don't give the whole 'to protect yourself' argument, I don't buy into it. We don't have them and we're just fine (a nice metal bar suffices for me ).

For people to 'protest' like this at the G20 is simply arrogant. We should be moving forward to remove guns from the public.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Does Switzerland have universal health, care?

Switzerland mandates health insurance. At the minimal level, it's pretty basic but one cannot be turned down for it. I don't know if there is a public insurance option; most if not all coverage is private. Most residents buy supplementary health insurance which is rather like the US system, except it's usually not an employment benefit.

If you get sick or injured without insurance, a hospital will treat you, bill you, and upon discharge the police will arrest you.

 

[Vanadium 50]

For people to 'protest' like this at the G20 is simply arrogant. We should be moving forward to remove guns from the public.

Some people might describe "I don't want one so nobody should have one" as simply arrogant as well.

 

[Huckleberry]

For people to 'protest' like this at the G20 is simply arrogant. We should be moving forward to remove guns from the public.

When can I vote on UK policy?

 

[JaredJames]

Some people might describe "I don't want one so nobody should have one" as simply arrogant as well.

Did I say that? Personally I would love to have a G36c, but I also realize what would be the point? What would I do with it? Where would I use it? So from that respect, I do want one. I just see no reasonable explanation as to why the public should require guns. So this re-writes your above statement as "I do want one so nobody should have one". Makes sense doesn't it?

There are a lot of people who claim it is their 'right' to carry a gun, it is to do with their 'freedom'. But this does not answer my question. I want a logical and justifiable answer as to why people insist on the NEED to own a gun?

A guns is designed with one thing in mind. To kill. You can dress it up as much as you want but its purpose is simple.

 

[JaredJames]

When can I vote on UK policy?

What? To own a gun in the UK, you need a license from the police (shotguns are all you allowed for hunting/sports shooting). Or you have to be a member of the armed police/armed forces. I'm pretty sure foreign dimplomat/other VIP protection people have to submit their weapons to the police before being allowed to enter the country, and they are returned on leaving.

 

[drankin]

Did I say that? Personally I would love to have a G36c, but I also realize what would be the point? What would I do with it? Where would I use it? So from that respect, I do want one. I just see no reasonable explanation as to why the public should require guns. So this re-writes your above statement as "I do want one so nobody should have one". Makes sense doesn't it?

There are a lot of people who claim it is their 'right' to carry a gun, it is to do with their 'freedom'. But this does not answer my question. I want a logical and justifiable answer as to why people insist on the NEED to own a gun?

A guns is designed with one thing in mind. To kill. You can dress it up as much as you want but its purpose is simple.

They need to own a gun to protect their family from a home invasion. They need a gun to protect themselves from a methhead robbery while they are walking down the street. They need to protect themselves and their family if there is a riot, looting, civil unrest. It's better to have a gun and never need it than to need it and not have one.

And I'm not even talking about those things that happen every few hundred years to a country where a gun is definitely needed. That's why people insist on exercising their right to own a gun.

 

[JaredJames]

They need to own a gun to protect their family from a home invasion. They need a gun to protect themselves from a methhead robbery while they are walking down the street. They need to protect themselves and their family if there is a riot, looting, civil unrest. It's better to have a gun and never need it than to need it and not have one.

And I'm not even talking about those things that happen every few hundred years to a country where a gun is definitely needed. That's why people insist on exercising their right to own a gun.

Ah yes, because we in the non-gun countries have those problems much worse than those in pro-gun countries don't we.

If there is such a problem with methhead robbery, put more police out, simple. If there is a crime problem in the UK, they put more patrols out.

When was the last time I faced rioting, looting or civil unrest to the point the police/army lost control and I required a gun?

 

[rootX]

They need to own a gun to protect their family from a home invasion. They need a gun to protect themselves from a methhead robbery while they are walking down the street. They need to protect themselves and their family if there is a riot, looting, civil unrest. It's better to have a gun and never need it than to need it and not have one.

Currently, I don't have a (strong) position about guns but to make your argument valid you need to prove that countries with more gun restrictions have more home invasion/robbery victims.

 

[cristo]

The idea is to "show those foreigners about freedoms".

Good idea However, if this does go ahead, the only outcome will be that the US taxpayer pays for more armed bodyguards, and more police in the area. I'm also pretty sure that the secret service can do almost anything they like with respect to gun restrictions, or blocking off access to the parts of the city involved, if they deem any extra thread on their president or any foreign leader.

So yes, cool idea, but if they (or you) think they have any chance of getting close to any country's leader with a weapon, then they have another think coming!

Do the foreign leaders come with their own security services?

Yes. That's like asking whether the US president takes secret service abroad with him.

 

[cristo]

When can I vote on UK policy?

You don't. You can have an opinion if you like, just like jared did. I wasn't aware there was anything wrong with expressing opinions on issues that affect us all.. perhaps you know better, though.

 

[tchitt]

Did I say that? Personally I would love to have a G36c, but I also realize what would be the point? What would I do with it? Where would I use it? So from that respect, I do want one. I just see no reasonable explanation as to why the public should require guns. So this re-writes your above statement as "I do want one so nobody should have one". Makes sense doesn't it?

There are a lot of people who claim it is their 'right' to carry a gun, it is to do with their 'freedom'. But this does not answer my question. I want a logical and justifiable answer as to why people insist on the NEED to own a gun?

A guns is designed with one thing in mind. To kill. You can dress it up as much as you want but its purpose is simple.

Of course guns are designed to kill but they're a lot of fun to shoot. Target practice is a pass-time for a lot of people...

The reason guns should continue to be legal is that if they were illegal only criminals would own guns. Most of the people who kill people with them don't have a right to own them anyway because they acquired them illegally or they're felons.

There are all kinds of reasons why owning a gun is a good idea. What if some sort of calamity befalls us and the rule of law ceases to be? How would you defend yourself from anarchistic ruffians who want to take your food? Why do you NEED a reason to own a gun, and why should they be prohibited from the general population?

 

[humanino]

Why do you NEED a reason to own a gun, and why should they be prohibited from the general population?

Your basic claim is that owning a gun protects you. This is not obvious to me. Do you have any kind of statistical study, which you trust, that you can provide for us to read.

For instance, if people are stupid enough, gun owners could be more likely to kill themselves while cleaning their gun than to protect themselves in the rare events when it is necessary. I'm not saying it's the case, I'm just saying it should be easy to display data.

 

[JaredJames]

Well firstly, the gun lovers gave a child an uzi, which he shot, and the kick caused it to recoil back and shoot him in the head. Killing him stone dead. There is a news report on it: http://www.childinjurylawyerblog.com/2008/10/boy_accidentally_shoots_himsel.html
A damn good reading why you don't want guns around, not to mention accidents involving kids and guns in the home.

"Why do you NEED a reason to own a gun"
For the same reason I don't buy ladies underwear. I don't have a requirement for it. It's what police are for.

"and why should they be prohibited from the general population? "
I'll answer that with a direct quote from yourself:
"Of course guns are designed to kill"

Before you start arguing rubbish like "a car can kill in the wrong hands", a car (or any other object you may choose) is not designed to kill. It is designed to transport people (again, or whatever job it is for). A gun is quite simply there to kill. And so by allowing them in the general populous you are giving people a way of killing each other and only that.

Also, as I said before, there are some things I accept you want a gun for. Like you said, sport shooting and hunting etc. But to want to carry a gun down the street clearly shows you are willing to use it on someone, to kill someone. (I suppose it could just be a gonad enhancer?)

 

[Hootenanny]

Can we please keep this thread on topic.

This is a discussion about guns at the G20, not a discussion on the right to bear arms.

 

[negitron]

Those two things are the same, not to put too fine a point on it.

 

[Evo]

This topic has been beaten to death in a number of threads already.