HARRP: What are the facts?

  1. HAARP: What are the facts?

    This is a link to a fairly run-of-the-mill fear mongering type article about the dangers of HAARP. Pretty much the kind of stuff you ear on Coast to Coast.

    Is anyone up on the real capabilities and limitations of this installation?

    HAARP
    Address:http://www.pacentro.com/HARRP/harrp.htm

    -Zooby
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2004
  2. jcsd
  3. Ivan Seeking

    Ivan Seeking 12,521
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    http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/
     
  4. Ah you beet me to it
    So much for being able to controll the weather and ability to destroy the mentally capabilites of my enemies
    (back to the drawing boards ).

    Besides the carefully crafted explanations regarding the capabilities of HAARP I'm fairly certain we can sleep sound tonight. Interesting information on that site though.
     
  5. dlgoff

    dlgoff 3,045
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    Ivan,
    What about the rest? It will be reflected. That's how HF radio signals get transmitted around the world.

    Regards
     
  6. Thanks, Ivan.

    I think it's interesting that the data is (or was supposed to be) available on the web in near real time. I wonder who can get access to it and how?

    The stated purpose of this research facility, though, raises more questions in my mind:

    "...and these observations can provide new information about the dynamics of plasmas and new insight into the processes of solar-terrestrial interactions."

    It isn't at all clear to me what is so important about this kind of information that it would merit such a large, expensive information gathering set up.
     
  7. Yes, the reason I asked about this is because I'm considering a carrear in Batman-style villainy.
    This would be the perfect toy for that. ;)
     
  8. Good question.
     
  9. Hey Zoob, dlgoff also gave the answer.
    Thats alot of signal power going skipping about to and fro.

    Wonder about resonating patterning and control, I do.
     
  10. LURCH

    LURCH 2,512
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    The project was also supposed to hold significant potential in understanding the effects of ionospheric disturbances on communications. Trouble shooting for the multi-billion-dollar/yr global communications industry sounds like a pretty good motive.

    Didn't read all the hype on the link in the original post, but they mainly seemed to be "harping" on the environmental impact. But my favorite conspiracy theory about HAARP has always been that the government hopes to find ways to excite the plasma in the ionosphere to a superheated state and possibly even direct it, so that a concentration of superheated plasma can be focussed over a single area. This would be the "Strategic Missile Defense Shield" that the so-called Starwars program was striving towards. If we detect what appears to be an ICBM launch by a hostile country, we just microwave the ionosphere above their launch sites, and the missiles get incinerated while trying to climb out of the atmosphere. Debris falls back down on the agressor.
     
  11. Indeed it does. This makes more sense to me than plasma study and solar/terrestrial interaction per se.
     
  12. Ivan Seeking

    Ivan Seeking 12,521
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  13. dlgoff

    dlgoff 3,045
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    Ivan,

    Oh, I don't think it would cause any kind of problem. I was just thinking that the signal might be able to be received around the world. Do you know what frequency they are going to use?

    Regards
     
  14. Reflecting in the ionosphere:

    Several misinfos have been stated here. Radio wave are not 'reflected' off of the ionosphere. They are refracted, like light in a lens. Yeah, I know it is a nitpicky, but relevant. A radio wave for example at 1 MHZ may not be refracted at all by the ionosphere. It can be absorbed. Also, the higher the frequency, the more difficult it is to refract the signal back to the earth. It is less bent than a lower frequency. Also, the steeper the angle, (straight up being the steepest) the more difficult it is to refract back to the earth. There are several layers in the ionosphere and they all have their own characteristics on different frequencies. There have been books written on the subject. If you are really curious about it, some books can be obtained from the American Radio Relay League. It is an Amateur Radio organization. You may find more info here: http://www.remote.arrl.org/
     
  15. Thanks A.S.

    I didn't find that nitpicky at all. It seems an important distinction to me.

    What constitutes the different layers of the ionosphere? This is something I wasn't aware of, that there were different layers within it.

    What are your thoughts about HAARP? Have you been following what info they're gathering with it?

    -Zooby
     
  16. I haven't followed it very closely for a few years. I have a book on it that I picked up about 5 years ago. I believe it is filled with a huge amount of misinformation and gloom and doom predictions. I am sure that there are military motives behind it, but not everything is the huge conspiracy that people seem to believe.
     
  17. Ivan Seeking

    Ivan Seeking 12,521
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    Well, to be fair we get both a reflected and a refracted waves at any boundary layer [differing indices of refraction] where the incident angle is less than then critical angle - beyond which we see total reflection. Also, in the strictest sense there is only absorption [conversion to heat], and absorption followed by emission such that the average yields the familiar laws for reflections and refraction.

    Since we are being picky.
     
  18. I don't find this picky.


    I take it the critical angle depends on the medium? Any idea what the critical angle for the ionosphere might be?
    Not sure I totally follow. You are saying that all cases of reflection/refraction are in fact absorbtion and re-emission, as opposed to authentic bouncing like a rubber ball off a wall?
     
  19. Ivan Seeking

    Ivan Seeking 12,521
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    Here is some information:
    http://roland.lerc.nasa.gov/~dglover/dictionary/i.html

    http://www.skylondaworks.com/sc_dispr.htm

    http://kreiz.unice.fr/magic/THEORY/theory.html

    This is a good link.
    http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/propagat/Propagat.htm

    I didn't spot a good number, but unless something funny happens, the index of refraction for the ionosphere must be between 1 and 1.0003 [between that of air and a pure vacuum]. This implies that the critical angle is a glancing angle...say 89 degrees from the perpendicular.

    Correct. No bouncing balls in the quantum realm. I think one correct statement is that the atoms in the media absorb the incident photons, but if the energy of the photons isn't correct, the configuration is unstable and the atom immediately [almost immediately...say in 10-31 seconds] releases a photon [not the same photon as far as we know] of equal energy in order to compensate. This is what actually slows the speed of light in that media as well. In between the atoms, photons travel at Cvac and follow a geodesic as determined by the local gravity; ie. they travel in "straight lines" less the effects of gravity.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2004
  20. Excellent information, Ivan. I hadn't ever looked into any of this, and it pretty much answers all my questions.

    In so far as there are vaguaries and shifts, it makes much more sense that they would create such a big installation to see if they could pin things down more.

    -Zooby
     
  21. Ivan Seeking

    Ivan Seeking 12,521
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    Neither did I, hence the smiley face.


    Anyone who loves physics must by definition appreciate the input by Averagesupernova.
     
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