Have men been priced out of the dating market?

[Jamin2112]

I want to preface this by saying that I'm not making a claim about the way things should be; I'm just saying the way they are. I know that I'm going to get attacked by feminists who say I want to go back to making women second-class citizens. I'm not saying that.

Now, the first thing to understand is that, back in the old days, marriages were forged out of economic necessity for women. If you were a man who made a living in the old days, you wouldn't have any problem finding a woman. Today, women are making a living on their own, so their economic motive is to upgrade their lifestyle by marrying a guy who is making not just a living but a good living. I'd peg the number of men who make what is considered a "good living" to be around 10% or less.

Is there any hope for the other 90% of men who aren't making a good living? Do women have any reason to want them? Yes, only if these men have some genetic worth, that is, if they're good looking. And women have extremely high standards for what is considered "good looking" for men (They consider over 80% of men to be below average in attractiveness: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-looks-and-online-dating/), so I'd say that the percentage of men who can get by in the dating scene by virtue of being tall and handsome is also less than 10%. Why would women settle for anything less? If they want to have kids, which many do want, they can just go to a sperm bank and get Mr. Tall, Dark and Handsome in the event that they can't be knocked up by him the natural way.

Bottom line: If you're not good-looking or rich, you're basically useless to women. Try online dating if you don't believe me.

 

[WannabeNewton]

Wow, it all makes sense now! All men who are not good-looking or rich are useless to women. That would explain why only the rich and beautiful fall in love, have committed relationships, and possibly end up getting married. Hmm...wait...that's not even remotely how the world is now is it? It's not only the feminists who would find your ramblings offensive but rather anyone who engages in rational thought.

 

[micromass]

Try online dating if you don't believe me.

I think the problem is not women, but online dating sites. Things like okcupid are free, but they don't have as much guarantees as other (non-free) dating sites.

 

[Jamin2112]

Wow, it all makes sense now! All men who are not good-looking or rich are useless to women. That would explain why only the rich and beautiful fall in love, have committed relationships, and possibly end up getting married. Hmm...wait...that's not even remotely how the world is now is it?

Yes, you're right. A lot of men who aren't rich or good-looking get married. Because the women finally decided they had to "settle."

 

[Jamin2112]

I think the problem is not women, but online dating sites. Things like okcupid are free, but they don't have as much guarantees as other (non-free) dating sites.

For the record, I've never tried online dating, but I've heard nothing besides horror stories by men who have tried it. I'd also say that it's an accurate representation of the real-life dating market, based on my observations: the average woman has tons of options, but the average man doesn't.

 

[leroyjenkens]

I think you're comparing women who want to find someone to marry with men who want to find someone to have sex with. It's apples and oranges.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Bottom line: If you're not good-looking or rich, you're basically useless to women.

This is so incorrect I don't know where to start.

Women want men who make them feel good about themselves. If you're good at that, money and looks are immaterial.

This sort of thing:

A young lady was taken to dinner one evening by Gladstone and the following evening by Disraeli. Asked what impressions these two celebrated men had made upon her, she replied, “When I left the dining room after sitting next to Mr. Gladstone, I thought he was the cleverest man in England. But after sitting next to Mr. Disraeli, I thought I was the cleverest woman in England.”

 

[Evo]

This is so incorrect I don't know where to start.

Women want men who make them feel good about themselves. If you're good at that, money and looks are immaterial.

+1

Well said.

 

[MarneMath]

I consider myself the average male. What I find is that women don't tend to price men out, men just end up shooting themselves in the foot anyway. Guys want to impress a woman because they think if a woman believes they are awesome, she surely will fall for him. I'm not an expert, but I've always felt that that was the wrong approach, yet a common approach.

I do believe, based on looks, a lot of females will rate males lower than average. However, I've found that a lot of females will have a change of opinion on how good looking a guy is based on his character. Suddenly the dorky guy with a weird hair cut, is the cute guy with quirks because he is thoughtful and makes her feel like someone important.

To say you're useless to someone if you have a lower income or not good looking is completely missing the point on more key aspects of a relationship. The ability to make the person feel special, cared for, the ability to listen to her, remember important day, and be a good friend will win over more women than a guy driving up in his new shiny car.

Take it from a guy who married a model while driving a 1973 F-100 XLT. Yes 100 -_-.

 

[Jamin2112]

This is so incorrect I don't know where to start.

Women want men who make them feel good about themselves.

Duh. But that doesn't make them attracted to you. It's not like some short, bald guy can just walk up to a supermodel and compliment her, then she'll suddenly gain an attraction to him. And in fact lots of women hate getting hit on by unattractive men because it makes them feel unattractive. If you're already attractive to them, however, then your expression of being attracted to them will make them feel good.

 

[Evo]

Duh. But that doesn't make them attracted to you. It's not like some short, bald guy can just walk up to a supermodel and compliment her, then she'll suddenly gain an attraction to him. And in fact lots of women hate getting hit on by unattractive men because it makes them feel unattractive. If you're already attractive to them, however, then your expression of being attracted to them will make them feel good.

I know lots of women that actually like men that aren't considered attractive by media standards, I'm one of them, my daughters are the same as me.

 

[WannabeNewton]

I know lots of women that actually like men that aren't considered attractive by media standards, I'm one of them, my daughters are the same as me.

I'm one of them as well

 

[Evo]

I'm one of them as well

 

[Travis_King]

Was all that to just say that very rich, very handsome, very confident men have an easier go at getting first dates than other people?

 

[leroyjenkens]

I think who you are makes a bigger impact on a woman than what you look like.
I agree that looks will get you in the door faster, but if you have a bad personality, then your looks don't really mean much.
I know a guy who I think doesn't look good at all. He's actually kinda ugly. But he has the charisma and alluring personality that made me not surprised to see that he has a beautiful girlfriend who is making the majority of the income in that relationship. He works manual labor and she's a nurse.

 

[xxChrisxx]

Disregard females.
Acquire currency.

 

[Jamin2112]

I agree that looks will get you in the door faster, but if you have a bad personality, then your looks don't really mean much.

I seriously don't know which universe you guys live in. I know so many boring, unintelligent, but good-looking guys who have no problem finding girlfriend after girlfriend.

 

[WannabeNewton]

disregard females.
Acquire currency.

loooool oh god I'm dead this is too hilarious I love this meme

 

[MarneMath]

So because you find them unintelligent and boring other people do too? Who knew different people got along with different kinds of people for a myriad of reasons? Perhaps this boring idiot might just really be a great conservationist? Nah...that can't be it.

 

[Kholdstare]

where have all the good men gone

Leave us alone. You are not amazing and we are not interested to commit.

 

[Lavabug]

I seriously don't know which universe you guys live in. I know so many boring, unintelligent, but good-looking guys who have no problem finding girlfriend after girlfriend.

I'm boring, not very bright, and allegedly good-looking by some standards but I've never received much (serious) interest from women and I'm well past the age that makes most people cringe when I say I've never had a relationship or gone on a date. My lifestyle and personality have a lot more to do with that, probably.

If the premise of the thread is that most guys can't be choosy, then yes in general I agree. That was an awfully complicated way of stating that though.

Also on dating sites... you're forgetting one crucial thing: selection bias. There are way more men than women on dating sites. I don't think most girls would feel the need to go down this avenue, since males are typically more aggressive when it comes to getting with someone. There's always a surplus of males hitting on them, they don't need to tread far from home/school/work to find someone interested given that most heterosexual men find most women devastatingly beautiful.

 

[Kholdstare]

I know lots of women that actually like men that aren't considered attractive by media standards, I'm one of them, my daughters are the same as me.

I am sorry that I don't understand the term "attractive by media standards". Point me towards some of the "unattractive by media standards" specimens from the internet that you or your daughters would like to date.

 

[Jamin2112]

where have all the good men gone

Leave us alone. You are not amazing and we are not interested to commit.

Doesn't this just prove my point? There are very few men who are desirable to women these days.

 

[turbo]

Some men are desirable, despite their age. Just keep your eyes open, and you'll find one.

 

[Evo]

I am sorry that I don't understand the term "attractive by media standards". Point me towards some of the "unattractive by media standards" specimens from the internet that you or your daughters would like to date.

I don't currently know of any on the internet. Why would you assume there would be?

 

[Evo]

Doesn't this just prove my point? There are very few men who are desirable to women these days.

There are men everywhere that are desirable, unfortunately most of them are married or in relationships, so are off limits.

 

[jim hardy]

My un-scientific opinion:

I have come to believe women are equipped with a sixth sense.
Women can detect pretense, psychological barriers, and even self deception as if they were scents. The unfortunate ones are attracted to it.

If you find that women scatter when you enter a room, it's probably something inside you and not them.


old jim

 

[Evo]

My un-scientific opinion:

I have come to believe women are equipped with a sixth sense.
Women can detect pretense, psychological barriers, and even self deception as if they were scents. The unfortunate ones are attracted to it.

If you find that women scatter when you enter a room, it's probably something inside you and not them.


old jim

It's our "spidey" sense. It's stronger with some women. :tongue:

 

[HeLiXe]

Women want men who make them feel good about themselves. If you're good at that, money and looks are immaterial.

Yep. And mental stability is also a good thing. Rational and logical thinking is even better.

 

[lisab]

My un-scientific opinion:

I have come to believe women are equipped with a sixth sense.
Women can detect pretense, psychological barriers, and even self deception as if they were scents. The unfortunate ones are attracted to it.

If you find that women scatter when you enter a room, it's probably something inside you and not them.


old jim

It's our "spidey" sense. It's stronger with some women. :tongue:

Totally agree.

 

[HeLiXe]

Thanks for quoting that Lisab! Old Jim is so right!

 

[Kholdstare]

I don't currently know of any on the internet. Why would you assume there would be?

Why would you assume there would not be? And why do you like going around in circles?

Yep. And mental stability is also a good thing. Rational and logical thinking is even better.

Yes. Manual for being friend-zoned.

NSFW words
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6BF8DPtQNw

I've been a-hole and had success. Only time I play nice guy is when I encounter women I do not like, to send them away.

 

[HeLiXe]

Good for you. Maybe you can give the OP some lessons.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Duh. But that doesn't make them attracted to you.

If you can make a woman feel good about herself she'll not only be attracted she'll be addicted to you.

It's not like some short, bald guy can just walk up to a supermodel and compliment her, then she'll suddenly gain an attraction to him.

You're wrong. The right short, bald guy can, in fact, do this, if he knows what he's doing. The tactic here (with a supermodel) would certainly not be to compliment her on her looks, but to comment on something she's doing that no other guy is likely to notice. This would certainly pique her interest and make her wonder, "Who is this short, bald guy who is so much more observant than other guys?"

And in fact lots of women hate getting hit on by unattractive men because it makes them feel unattractive.

I think this would only be true for women who only get hit on by unattractive men. Regardless, you wouldn't initially approach any quality woman by "hitting on" her. You make contact and start exploring what she's about, simultaneously revealing what you're about.

If you're already attractive to them, however, then your expression of being attracted to them will make them feel good.

This is true, and if life deals you an attractive hand you should play it when it's to your advantage, but that only represents one possible small way of making a woman feel good about herself.

I know a woman who divorced her husband after 20 years of marriage and two children when he refused to take any interest in her new found obsession with poetry. He didn't get poetry, but worse, didn't try. In his mind it was a distraction that took her attention off him. He refused to go to her poetry readings, which she found representative of a larger need on his part to make the relationship all about her doting on him with no reciprocation. Instead of making her feel good about her new thing he tacitly tried to discourage it, and it killed the relationship.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Any belief in magic spidey senses is simply self delusion. What we are really talking about is judging someone with no knowledge of who that person really is. It is no different than impulse buying - something that marketing companies target directly in women.

I've heard many stories about women who thought their future husband was a jerk when they first met. And with a 50% divorce rate and 70% of divorces initiated by women, it would seem that their spidey senses were in error at least half of the time when they liked a man enough to fall in love.

You don't see many supermodel types with short fat guys no matter how charming or confident a man might be. Let's get real.