# Healthcare for all

1. Jul 29, 2009

### vectorcube

I am not sure why anyone would oppose universal healthcare. They have it in Europe, and the more advanced countries in Asia. There are alot of people who are uninsured in the US. It is quite painful to me to see anyone would leave to his/her own disease if they have no money to pay their health insurence. I open mind to hear arguments from the opposing side.

Last edited: Jul 29, 2009
2. Jul 29, 2009

### Cyrus

Because there are people out there who believe in more than the sound bite catch phrase (1) "universal healthcare". We don't have the money to pay for it (2). Not everyone deserves healthcare (3).

Last edited: Jul 29, 2009
3. Jul 29, 2009

### Pengwuino

Interesting that you were the one to say that...

4. Jul 29, 2009

### Cyrus

Don't worry, you made the list of people not to get healthcare.

5. Jul 29, 2009

### Pengwuino

Then you'll probably need to get doped up on morphine if you took the time to research and realize this happens even in nations with "universal healthcare". Do you realize per capita, the US spends the most on health care in the world? The US health care system needs major fixes, but spouting some, as cyrus puts it, sound bite that politicians use to garner votes is irresponsible and childish.

6. Jul 29, 2009

### maverick_starstrider

I suggest a global piggy bank for health care. I'd put in 5 cents. Anyone else?

7. Jul 29, 2009

### TheStatutoryApe

Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
8. Jul 29, 2009

### Cyrus

I'll pass.

9. Jul 29, 2009

### vectorcube

You see. Here is where i disagree. I think everyone deserve healthcare. I don t agree you could partition people into two camps( when it comes to saving lifes).

10. Jul 29, 2009

### vectorcube

So you are saying there are countries with universal healthcare, but are not insuring everyone in their country? which countries?

I do hope the politician would fix the problem. I am not sure why it is irresponsible if it is a real problem that need to be fixed. What is the argument againist healthcare?

Last edited: Jul 29, 2009
11. Jul 29, 2009

### vectorcube

It is better than none.

12. Jul 29, 2009

### vectorcube

Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
13. Jul 29, 2009

### cristo

Staff Emeritus
What do you mean by "deserves"? Why wouldn't you think that everyone should be entitled to healthcare?

14. Jul 29, 2009

Staff Emeritus
Well, it's Cyrus being Cyrus.

The problem is "entitled to healthcare" is not a black and white concept. What level of healthcare are people entitled to? Minimal care? Basic care? Where do you draw the line for the entitlement? How do you deal with finite resources?

15. Jul 29, 2009

### vectorcube

I just don t buy the finite resource reasoning. Countries in western europe is able to do it. So can we. I don t like how you partition people to those that receive minimal, or most expensive healhcare, because you cant compare the worth of a life. When it comes the basic necessities of life, and well being, everyone should have the best healthcare.

16. Jul 29, 2009

### cristo

Staff Emeritus
You should be entitled to all the healthcare you need. Bluntly put, if something is wrong with me, and there is a way to fix it, then I should be entitled to it.

Draw the line for who is entitled, or draw the line for what they are entitled to?

Now that's just living in a dream world; plus you don't define "best". I live in western europe (UK). You shouldn't be under the impression that nationalised healthcare treats 100% of the population. Sure, you could have pretty much any procedure done on the NHS, but the waiting time is pretty long. Thus, the "best" healthcare is still correlated with wealth (obviously), but there aren't people who miss out on healthcare because they can't afford it.

17. Jul 29, 2009

### Hootenanny

Staff Emeritus
Unfortunately, our (UK) healthcare system doesn't work particularly well. The UK is meant to have free healthcare, yet we have to pay for some services and all of our prescriptions. There have also been cases where patients have paid for treatments not available on the NHS (National Health Service), and then been refused standard treatments on the NHS with the reasoning that if they can afford to pay for one treatment, they should pay for all their treatments.

Another downside to the NHS is that we pay for the NHS through our income tax, which means that if you opt for health insurance you still have to pay tax towards the NHS.

18. Jul 29, 2009

Staff Emeritus
Suppose you (and 100 other people) need a new liver, and there are 10 available. Who gets them?

19. Jul 29, 2009

### TheStatutoryApe

???
They are thousands year old oaths taken by doctors.

20. Jul 29, 2009

### cristo

Staff Emeritus
Well there would be some sort of priority list taking into account things like risk of death without a new liver, likelihood of patient to care for new liver, amount of time waiting, etc..