Conceiving a Net Decrease in Entropy: Is Heat Death Avoidable?

In summary, the concept of Heat Death in the universe is when all the energy is evenly distributed and there is no longer any movement or usable energy. This may not be valid if the universe is closed and experiences a Big Crunch. It is not possible to conceive of a net decrease in entropy, as it will continue to increase even in the case of a recollapse of the universe.
  • #1
KillaMarcilla
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Yo, d00ds, my Physics book mentions the concept of Heat Death (All the energy in the universe going to an unusable form) but says that it might not be valid if the universe is bounded in certain ways

Does that just mean that if the universe hits a Big Crunch, it won't experience Heat Death, or if it experiences Cold Death it can't hit Heat Death, or is it something more interesting?

IS there any way on any level to conceive of a (statistically reasonable) net decrease in entropy?

Edit: fixed typo
 
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  • #2
Originally posted by KillaMarcilla
Yo, d00ds, my Physics book mentions the concept of Heat Death (All the energy in the universe going to an unusable form) but says that it might not be valid if the universe is bounded in certain ways

what do you mean by unusable form? are you talking about the possibility of an ever expanding universe?

IS there any way on any level to conceive of a (statistically reasonable) net increase in entropy?

as of now, everything is on a net increase. maybe you meant net DECREASE.
 
  • #3
yeah, that's what I meant

So do you know anything, Maximus?
 
  • #4
i'm still unclear about what "Hot Death" is or what you mean by unusable energy. also, what is the situation in which this hot death will take place? the big cruch collapse or the other, continually expanding scenerio. i can make a guess that you mean the eternal expansion becuase that's the situation in which entropy will eventually increase to a state where even stars will be unable to make thermonuclear reactions (be rendered "useless" i suppose) and the distribution of the energy of the universe will become too uniform.

but in a more direct answer to your last question: no. in both scenerios (collapse and no) the net entropy value will increase to a maximum.
 
  • #5
Heat death refers to the situation where, in an open universe, everything reaches the same temperature. When this happens, thermodynamics states that there will no longer be any way to move energy around -- and since all biology and technology depend on the heat reservoirs, biology and technology will cease to exist.

If the universe is closed, it will reach a big crunch (probably) far earlier than it will suffer heat death.

- Warren
 
  • #6
A slight miscommunication, Maximus; and Killa is talking about "Heat Death", not "a hot death". Killa, I have only a ever heard of heat death in association with an open (ever expanding) cosmological model. The idea is that, as space continues to expand, energy continues to spread out until it is evenly distributed. When there are no areas of high concentration for energy to flow from, or low concentration for it to flow to, all motion will stop. This is not restricted to biology and technology only, it will mean the cessation of all movement. When there is no movement of any kind anywhere in the cosmos, it can be said in a very lateral way that kind itself has stopped.

As for a conceivable scenario in which entropy decreases, this is precisely what many proponents of the "Oscillating Universe" model espouse. When the universe stops expanding, according to this cosmological model, entropy will also stop increasing. As the universe begins to contract, entropy will be reversed.
 
  • #7
Originally posted by LURCH
As for a conceivable scenario in which entropy decreases, this is precisely what many proponents of the "Oscillating Universe" model espouse. When the universe stops expanding, according to this cosmological model, entropy will also stop increasing. As the universe begins to contract, entropy will be reversed.

after posting a thread a while back, wondering about the possibility of entropy decrease upon recollapse, we concluded that entropy would not behave so during the Big Crunch. most modern theories about the recollapse agree.
 

1. What is entropy and how is it related to heat death?

Entropy is a measure of the disorder or randomness in a system. Heat death, also known as the "Big Freeze," is theorized to occur when the universe reaches a state of maximum entropy, meaning all energy is evenly distributed and no work can be done. This would result in a state of complete and permanent inactivity, where no life or any other processes can exist.

2. Can a net decrease in entropy be achieved?

According to the second law of thermodynamics, the entropy of a closed system will always increase over time. This means that a net decrease in entropy is highly unlikely, and the concept of reversing the effects of heat death is currently not supported by scientific evidence.

3. Is it possible to avoid heat death?

At this time, there is no known way to avoid the eventual heat death of the universe. However, some scientists propose the idea of a "Big Crunch," where the universe would eventually collapse in on itself and potentially restart the cycle of expansion and contraction. This is still a highly debated and unproven theory.

4. Are there any efforts being made to prevent heat death?

While there are no current efforts to prevent heat death, scientists continue to study and explore the laws of thermodynamics and the behavior of the universe in hopes of gaining a better understanding of its eventual fate.

5. What implications does heat death have for the future of humanity?

If the theory of heat death is true, it would mean that the universe will eventually reach a state of complete and permanent inactivity. This would have grave implications for the future of humanity, as it would mean the end of all life and any possibility for progress or development. However, it is important to note that this is a very long-term prediction and may not occur for billions of years, if at all.

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