Thermodynamics of Ideal Counterflow Heat Exchanger

In summary: I find a lot of it puzzling and makes me formulate many conjetures; I hope any of you can help me with this one about heat exchange.In summary, the conversation discusses a closed hose loop filled with water that is perfectly isolated from the surroundings, but makes contact with itself to create a heat exchanger. The water runs without friction and the length of the hose allows for complete heat exchange. The questions raised include whether the system would remain at the same temperature indefinitely or if it would evolve to an average temperature, and the role of temperature in creating a force to move the fluid. The conversation concludes with the suggestion to model transient heat transfer by assuming a heat transfer coefficient between the two parts of the hose in contact.
  • #1
pkv
11
0
I am (slowly) learning thermodynamics. I find a lot of it puzzling and makes me formulate many conjetures; I hope any of you can help me with this one about heat exchange.
Let's start with this system:
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There is a closed hose loop filled with water; its temperature gradient goes from cold to hot from one extreme to the other.
The system is perfectly isolated from the surroundings, but the hose makes contact with itself creating a heat exchanger.
Water runs in the hose without friction, let's assume there is no pump / no pumping losses.
The length of the hose is large enough for complete heat exchange. Cold water reaches the hot end at the same hot temperature, and viceversa.

Questions:
Would this system remain at the same temperature at all its points indefinitely? Or do thermodynamics require this system to evolve to an average temperature some way?
 
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  • #2
There must be something, probably the change in density of the water plus gravity to make the water move. Think of Newton's second law, f=ma. The water will not accelerate without a force.

Temperature can create a force by making the fluid expand.

You need to include more things in your question to make it answerable.
 
  • #3
Hi,
I specified "no friction" and set up the arrows, trying to convey the idea that the liquid is in movement due to inertia and there is no reason for it to stop.

My understanding of this system is that temperature in this idealized counterflow heat exchanger is completely exchanged, and therefore the cold extreme should remain cold, and the hot extreme remains hot "forever".
But I am pretty sure I am wrong and I am missing something important.
 
  • #4
pkv said:
Hi,
I specified "no friction" and set up the arrows, trying to convey the idea that the liquid is in movement due to inertia and there is no reason for it to stop.

My understanding of this system is that temperature in this idealized counterflow heat exchanger is completely exchanged, and therefore the cold extreme should remain cold, and the hot extreme remains hot "forever".
But I am pretty sure I am wrong and I am missing something important.
The temperature throughout the system would eventually equilibrate at the average temperature, unless you were maintaining the cold end in contact with a cold reservoir and the hot end in contact with a hot reservoir. Under the latter circumstances, the system would reach a steady state.

Why don't you assume a heat transfer coefficient between the two parts of the hose in contact and model the transient heat transfer?

Chet
 

1. What is heat exchange?

Heat exchange is the transfer of thermal energy between two systems or objects. This can occur through three main mechanisms: conduction, convection, and radiation.

2. What are the limits of heat exchange?

The limits of heat exchange refer to the maximum amount of thermal energy that can be transferred between two systems or objects. This is determined by factors such as the temperature difference between the systems, the properties of the materials involved, and the presence of any barriers or hindrances to heat transfer.

3. How do the laws of thermodynamics apply to heat exchange?

The laws of thermodynamics govern the behavior of heat exchange. The first law states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred or converted. The second law states that heat always flows from a higher temperature to a lower temperature, and the third law states that it is impossible to reach absolute zero temperature.

4. What are some examples of heat exchange in everyday life?

Some examples of heat exchange in everyday life include cooking food on a stove, feeling the warmth of the sun on your skin, and using a refrigerator to keep food cold. Other common examples include heating and cooling systems in buildings, heat transfer in car engines, and using a microwave to heat up food.

5. What factors affect heat exchange?

The rate and amount of heat exchange between two systems or objects can be affected by a variety of factors, such as the surface area and material properties of the objects, the temperature difference between the systems, the presence of insulation or barriers, and the type of heat transfer mechanism (conduction, convection, or radiation).

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