Exploring Re-Written History in WWII & WWI

[Ivan Seeking]

I didn't want to get too far off topic in the greatest tragedies thread so instead I decided to post this separately. This was in response to the latest on page five [that thread really took off eh? ].

On the re-writing of history: Back in Huntsville I ran into a WWII AF vet. I forget what squadron he was with, but he claimed that Japan did not surrender even with the second A-bomb; but only did when we continued with regular bombing of the Japanese cities. Allegedly he was on several of these missions. I have no idea if this is just his own skewed perspective or a fact lost to history.

It was also reported some years ago that when large databases were merged from various countries around the world, a number of significant contradictions arose. I remember that Japan claimed that WWI [edit whoops, I meant WWII, not WWI] ended not by surrender but by mutual agreement. Also, Germany claims to have won WWI. There were others but I don't remember any more for now.

 

[russ_watters]

I think those are two different phenomena. The first is probably just that eyewitness accounts and memories are unreliable: chances are the guy just didn't remember the date correctly, that he last bombed Japan. The second is purposeful distortion of history.

 

[Berislav]

I forget what squadron he was with, but he claimed that Japan did not surrender even with the second A-bomb;

This is true. The second A-bomb was droped on the August 9th, Japan unconditionaly surrendered on September 2nd.

but only did when we continued with regular bombing of the Japanese cities.

I don't know about that. I do know that the Soviets declared war on Japan one day after the first A-bomb was dropped on Hiroshima.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I have no idea if this is just his own skewed perspective or a fact lost to history.

My first knowledge of WWII came from the stories of my parent's generation who both fought in it and lived through it "over here". Some of what they thought had happened doesn't square with what I've since read. I got into trouble asserting, a few months ago, that we had saved the British from the Nazis, which, of course, is what my uncle who landed at Normandy and fought through to Germany thought he was up to at the time.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

One other thought on this. In the book Aztec, by Gary Jennings - one of those [dangerous] semi-factual accounts about the Aztec civilization before and during the Spanish invasion -the Aztec discover that their own history has been re-written by the victors who produced the then modern Aztec people. Then, the Spanish re-write history again; reinforcing the idea that history is written by the victors. So it does make one wonder... Also, if you haven't read about this...
'the classical equivalent of finding the holy grail',
who knows what we may find. :tongue2:

 

[zoobyshoe]

Thing is: if they found all those "practise" sheets in a trash heap you have to wonder if they were discarded for penmanship or factual errors.

 

[Pengwuino]

I wish my grandfather didnt have Alzheimers or I would be able to ask him. I think there's a LOT of history re-writing for political reasons going around by a lot of politically motivated people. Didn't we having someone on here going on a few days ago about Mao leading the Chinese to fight back the Americans in WW2?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Thing is: if they found all those "practise" sheets in a trash heap you have to wonder if they were discarded for penmanship or factual errors.

It will take at least another one hundred years to realize that this is the classical equivalent of the National Enquirer! :rofl:

Also, the Dead Sea Scrolls come to mind. Do we have any experts? I understand that quite a bit of new information is found there - re-writing history, according to some.

 

[Francis M]

On the re-writing of history: Back in Huntsville I ran into a WWII AF vet. I forget what squadron he was with, but he claimed that Japan did not surrender even with the second A-bomb; but only did when we continued with regular bombing of the Japanese cities. Allegedly he was on several of these missions. I have no idea if this is just his own skewed perspective or a fact lost to history.

THis is probably a skewed sense of memory due to the fact it happened 60+ years ago and his days were probably a string repetative work/training days between missions and missions that were hours of bordom followed by minutes of terror.

It was also reported some years ago that when large databases were merged from various countries around the world, a number of significant contradictions arose. I remember that Japan claimed that WWI [edit whoops, I meant WWII, not WWI] ended not by surrender but by mutual agreement. Also, Germany claims to have won WWI. There were others but I don't remember any more for now.

Both us (the U.S.A) and North Vietnam claimed to have won. This is because we can both claim to have achieved our objectives.

It's been reported (I can't remember the book title, and I think I saw it on The History Channel or Discovery also) that the Emperor of Japan had recorded a surrender message just before or after the first atom bomb was dropped and that during the time between the first bomb and the second one that people loyal to Hirohito were trying to get it out/released/played. This was done without the JIA being notified and when they found out they sent their secret police to seize the recordings. It's said that anyone they thought that was remotly connected to the tapes they tortured for information and or killed.
If this is true then just think if the message had gotten out earlier than it eventually did how different things may hve gone.
You have to remember that for all intents and purposes Hirohito was a puppet of the Imperial Army who were really the ones in charge. They (the generals with their overdeveloped sense of Bushido) were the ones willing to fight to the end and sacrifice everyone in the process

 

[zoobyshoe]

Both us (the U.S.A) and North Vietnam claimed to have won. This is because we can both claim to have achieved our objectives.

Who claimed we won? I haven't ever heard anyone, US citizen or government official claim Vietnam as a US victory.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Who claimed we won? I haven't ever heard anyone, US citizen or government official claim Vietnam as a US victory.

That's true. I don't know of anyone who has ever claimed that we won in VN. I find it rather interesting that SVN would claim victory.