How can I sell myself better, be more attractive, keep a conversation interesting?

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Hey,

my problem is that I really want to flirt with girls and have dates badly. However, when approaching a girls, I feel that I have no plan. If I start a conversation anyway, it might sometimes go OK in like the first 20 seconds, but then I end up not really knowing what to say. I know being cocky and funny is important and telling stories is important, but so far, I am not good enough at that.

What strikes me about this weakness is that in the last couple of months, I have undergone incredibly great changes (as never happened before in such a short time) and in terms of personal development, I was very successful. I tried many new things, put in some effort, and I succeeded. Flirting stands out: I have no success, no dates here.

I won't bore you with my life story, but these facts are important: I grew up with my parents who are very old and conservative and basically fear the whole world. I had grown incredibly dependent on them, and whenever I did or wanted something contrary to their 'recommendations', it made me feel terrible. They felt it is most important for me to study well and also felt that 'distractions' like going out in the evenings, socialising and, most of all, having a girlfriend, will eventually make me fail my studies and ruin me.

Last summer, turning 23, I decided to change everything. I started continuously implementing the things that are important to me in my life and finally began acting contrary to what my parents wanted. Now, 9 months later, I have accomplished a lot:

  • I applied and got accepted at one of the most prestigious Universities in the world for my Master's. I will move away from my parents in only a couple of months to take that course.
  • I am paying attention to my diet and I am regularly working out. My physique has improved a lot.
  • I am now aware of fashion and I have compiled a good-looking wardrobe.
  • I socialise with my friends a lot more than I used to, and I love it.
  • I am taking art lessons every week now (I am passionate about certain types of art).
  • I am not afraid anymore and I take risks all the time. I do not need approval from my parents anymore. Investing so much time for my own well-being (i.e. socialising, sports, fashion) leaves less time for study right now. A year ago, such a thought would have made me sick of fear. Now it is OK, I give my best and just don't feel so much fear anymore.
  • All of the above are my work, I planted the ideas, I made them real. There was noone to help me and my parents were very strictly agains all of the bullets.

It just hurts that flirting and dating are not something I was able to accomplish, even though I put in lots of effort. I still do have some fear of approaching a woman, but above all, I can't sell myself well, I don't really know how to present myself as an interesting person, how to be attractive. My looks seem OK, my physique is OK, my wardrobe is, too. But I haven't been in a relationship for almost four years, and I really want one. Or at least flirting and having fun.

Maybe you can give me some advice?
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
turbo
Gold Member
3,077
45


Hey,

my problem is that I really want to flirt with girls and have dates badly. However, when approaching a girls, I feel that I have no plan. If I start a conversation anyway, it might sometimes go OK in like the first 20 seconds, but then I end up not really knowing what to say. I know being cocky and funny is important and telling stories is important, but so far, I am not good enough at that.
(Bolding mine). I think you can pull off the last part of the first statement. :devil: That's not a great way to build a relationship, though. Dating is a way to get to know the ladies and get comfortable with one another, so something further might evolve in your relationship. It is NOT important to be "cocky and funny", in fact it can be a real turn-off if you try to come off as the alpha-male. If you are nice, polite, self-effacing, and even a bit klutzy or shy about social stuff sometimes, lots of girls will think you are "nice", "sweet", "cute", etc, and that's going to get you WAY ahead of "cocky and funny".

Remember that your desire for closeness, affection, etc should not be the overriding factor in your relationships with women. First, strive to be a good friend and treat them as treasured friends. Single women are inveterate match-makers, and if they really like you but aren't interested in you romantically, they'll be pitching you to their friends: "I know this really sweet guy that you ought to meet..."

Good luck.
 
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  • #3
chiro
Science Advisor
4,790
132


Just be confident within yourself, and most importantly be yourself.

If you want to meet people, there are plenty of ways to do that. If you want exposure to different types of people in a dating environment, speed dating might interest you. You may find out that the kinds of people there are not your cup of tea, so then you try something like say sporting groups, or other special interest groups.

If you are confident and happy within yourself, people (both male and female) will be attracted to you (and I don't just mean sexually). If you don't be yourself, then you are digging a hole in my opinion. If people don't like you for who you are, then just find other people. If you're not an ******* or some psycho, there's bound to be a group of personalities out there that click with you.

Keep your head up, you'll find someone.
 
  • #4
119
2


um, I dunno, but you focus a lot on yourself and what you are lacking. Maybe try to forget all that and focus on the girl and what you like about her. Everyone likes being told how nice and desirable they are, tell her you like her, and see what she does. if she likes you too then ask her to hang out. if she isnt interested, then leave it and find someone else.
Sounds like you are doing pretty good, so just be yourself and do what you love, and I'm sure you will meet girls! especially as you are starting a masters - you will meet people on the course or through their friends. and as you get older there will be more girls your age desperate to get married soon and they will come flocking! dont you worry!
 
  • #5
466
2


Everyone likes being told how nice and desirable they are, tell her you like her, and see what she does.
Everyone does like that, but telling a girl how nice and desireable she is is NOT the best way to date her. It is however a great way to boost her ego and make her think she's too good for you.

To the OP:

Do you socialize with women? Do you have a problem talking to them?

If you can talk to a woman, you can flirt with her. You know which women you're attracted to, the issue is attracting her to you.

Tell us, what do you do when trying to flirt with a girl? Or do you have problems even talking with women and starting it?

Obviously you want the conversation to be interesting. Usually when talking to a new girl, you will have to do most of the talking at first. Don't be shy to simply start telling an interesting story about yourself that would interest her. She doesn't know you, so you have to build up an image of yourself. Better to do it early and in a positive way.

One thing to keep in mind is the power of teasing a girl lightly in building attraction. By doing that you're showing you DON'T think she's better than you. If you give off vibes that you're nervous to be talking to a girl or start saying how beautiful she is, she'll feel that she's too good for you and not be interested. If you can gently kid a beautiful girl and show that you're comfortable talking to her, she won't feel that she's too good for you.

Another basic aspect of flirting is touching, which acts as a good proxy for how well the flirting is going. Start out by a gentle, light touch that hardly lasts a second. Something like touching her arm lightly when you say something about her. If she recoils, cool off, if not, try stepping it up bit by bit.

Bringing it all together:

''You know, you have an interesting look. This scarf *touch the scarf* looks like something I would always see in France, but you don't look like the girls there at all...''

Right there you kinda make her a little unsure of herself by saying ''interesting'' instead of pretty etc. You show a bit of comfort/dominance by being unafraid to touch her and her stuff (but don't grab it, just touch it to indicate it) by touching her and you initiate the whole process of touching, and you invite her to ask a question about you by alluding to something interesting about yourself.
 
  • #6
324
0


You can honestly learn everything from her if you want to converse better.

http://www.kezia-noble.com/blog/page/4/

She's extremely good at what she does and is extremely hot as well. You might not agree but her methods are in fact real .

One of the things i like asking is "If you could have any superpower in the world, what would it be?"

Also from what this girl has said, being cocky doesn't really work with shy girls. I think you really have to know your audience. But always be alpha
 
  • #7
7
0


I just had a conversation with a friend and opened up about my problem and I feel like I got a better idea now what the underlying difficulty is.

I think the real problem is this:

When I wrote that thread, I didn't need to be told that I need to socialize more and in a way I enjoy. Let's face it: I knew that. And let's be honest, I know that socializing is great, that it leads to being open, communicative, and that relationships will come about automatically. It's BS that I need some technique or quick fix or pickup lines to approaching women. I know exactly what I need: Socializing, spending time with my friends (whom I really enjoy), having fun. The rest will come.

What's worrying me is something else. I sacrificed a lot for being admitted to that University for a one-year-Master's program. It's an incredible chance and will open doors (possibly for a great PhD position). I have to be honest with myself and face it: I know myself well enough by now to say that I will NOT socialize in that year. I am not going there for gaining new experiences, I am going there for obtaining very good grades. The results will reach far beyond just that one year. I worked so much for this chance, and for the scholarship to finance that trip. I couldn't and wouldn't allow myself to screw this up.

And here is what I believe to be my core worry: I've caught a glimpse of what it's like to socialize, have friends, meet girls, being more free than I used to be, being able to enjoy the summer with other people than my parents... I adore it! I tasted blood and I want more of that! And I'm scared as **** that now that I am just starting to live, I will have to interrupt this whole adventure for another year. I think this is the core conflict in my soul at this moment.

I feel I'm at a pivotal point in my life. I was deprived of fun with other people for so long. It took me a certain amount of experience, a certain amount of time to get here... I couldn't have done it faster. Had all of this happened like one year earlier, I would have moved out from my parents, and by now, I would have become a happy person with a lovely girlfriend. And I probably would not have had the perfect grades that now allow me to go where I will go.

Probably, it's wrong to see it that way. I guess I want too much too fast. I guess I will evolve gradually and my next year will not put a stop to my progress. I guess I'll have to face that I can't finish my personal development on schedule before I leave town. And I feel that there are still gigantic mountains of crappy, old, inappropriate and plainly wrong ideas in my mind that I will gradually have to identify and get rid of. I guess it's still a long way to go.

I just keep asking myself: Why couldn't my parents been different? Or why wasn't I strong enough to just move out or move to another city after school? I know I wanted to, I had arguments about going to a different city, but they injected me with a lot of fear and they made me stay. I should have been more determined back then. It took me my whole Bachelor's to realize what's going on and start changing.
 
  • #8
turbo
Gold Member
3,077
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I just keep asking myself: Why couldn't my parents been different? Or why wasn't I strong enough to just move out or move to another city after school? I know I wanted to, I had arguments about going to a different city, but they injected me with a lot of fear and they made me stay. I should have been more determined back then. It took me my whole Bachelor's to realize what's going on and start changing.
We are all different. Still, it seems that your parents wanted to keep you close and provide you with a stable environment, and that's not a bad motivation when they are concerned about their child.

You should have a long and productive life, and if you have to sacrifice some social contact, fun, etc to pursue your masters degree, that year won't seem too long in retrospect years from now. Good luck!
 
  • #9
324
0


I just had a conversation with a friend and opened up about my problem and I feel like I got a better idea now what the underlying difficulty is.

I think the real problem is this:

It's BS that I need some technique or quick fix or pickup lines to approaching women. I know exactly what I need: Socializing, spending time with my friends (whom I really enjoy), having fun. The rest will come.
What you should really do is be more confident. Bring forth the high energy and girls will love you for it. Not anything neutral or negative. JUST POSITIVE ENERGY! The lines are a guide line to sort of have a structure to work at.


I don't know if you do jiu jitsu, or any grappling or martial arts but when you first start jiu jitsu, you're given a sort of step by step guide to do a move. But as you move further into the art, you realize that all these things are can be broken down into concepts and laws you must obey. This is similiar to what socializing is. Atleast for me.

Also there's no such thing as a pickup line. No one line will make a girl have an instant orgasm and want you for sex. There's things such as openers to open up a conversation.


Also I don't understand why you couldn't socialize and do your studies at the same time. At my local university, there's a chemistry professor who does judo 3+ times a week and researches.
 
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  • #10
119
2


I agree with Turbo! When you've done your masters you will have your whole life to socialise and whatever! and when you look back it will seem like no time. Dont worry about whats gonnahappen in the future, or what had happened in the past. You are in a great position right now and thats worth celebrating! you should enjoy right now! you still have what, 3 months until your course starts, thats plenty of time to have fun! and who knows, you might have so much fun that by the time your course starts you would have had enough! and would want to knuckle down and study! And if not, you have plenty of time after - you're only like 23, and you are guy so dont need to worry about biolgoical clock ticking out, you can be a playboy until like 90! So enjoy the summer, get your masters good and study well, do a phd or whatever, make loads of money after in business/discover something amazing and be a professor, and you can have all the fun and girls you could want! but of course, studying and fun are not mutually exclusive, you just have to find the right balance - I've known people at uni who got great grades and managed to have a social life and girl/boyfriends. Just have to manage your time and use it on stuff you want.
 
  • #11
918
16


The only way to build confidence is practice. My suggestion to on how to get the practice is always the same. Go up to every girl you see, every chance you get and converse. But before you do, have an exit strategy. Keep up the conversation as long as you feel comfortable, but as soon as the comfort level drops, carry out a strategic retreat. I just remembered, I have to pick up some papers for a friend of mine, sorry, but I gotta run. Hightail it out of there and prepare for the next attempt. The important thing is not so much to cut and run as it is to realize that you can whenever you feel the need.
 
  • #12
Lichdar


Remember that your desire for closeness, affection, etc should not be the overriding factor in your relationships with women. First, strive to be a good friend and treat them as treasured friends.
Friendzone.

That is /not/ the way to go if you wish to pursue relations on your own or prefer to do your own chasing. Sadly or otherwise, treating girls as friends solely and by itself, is a surefire way to never being able to escalate it to anything romantic.

Personal experience indicates that there might be a right way about approaching that friendship so that you can still make it romantic later, but its certainly not the usual friendship - pretty much you have to flirt, and do so heavily.
 
  • #13
324
0


Friendzone.

That is /not/ the way to go if you wish to pursue relations on your own or prefer to do your own chasing. Sadly or otherwise, treating girls as friends solely and by itself, is a surefire way to never being able to escalate it to anything romantic.

Personal experience indicates that there might be a right way about approaching that friendship so that you can still make it romantic later, but its certainly not the usual friendship - pretty much you have to flirt, and do so heavily.
This guy speaks the truth.
 
  • #14
turbo
Gold Member
3,077
45


This guy speaks the truth.
Please! Be nice to women and be close to them! That's what lets friendship and closeness blossom into romance. Pursuing women as if you are a predator is exactly the wrong way to get a decent mate. This kind of mentality is why the US has such a high divorce rate, IMO.

If you are always deal-making in your relationships, you will end up with a woman who accepts you on those terms, and will be quite willing to jump ship when a better deal comes along. That's not the basis for a healthy relationship.
 
  • #15
Lichdar


I'm not sure which country you are from, so it might be different, but in the US/UK, not being assertive toward women is essentially a blend of passive-aggressive("I wish I had more with this girl, but I don't know, so I'll just play it safe and be her friend until maybe she sees me as more") and extremely passive("I'll wait for her to set me up with someone.").

Neither are particularly attractive, which is why 'niceness' is often so negatively viewed. Its almost hypocritical in a way, and certainly not very honest. And its angst, unpleasant and extremely disempowered - nothing which helps it be more masculine.

I don't think its deal-making at all, and I don't see it as dealmaking. If anything, its more primal and from personal experience, it works. And being in pursuit is certainly more natural, and heck of a lot more encouraging to think you are choosing, rather than just being chosen.

There's a reason why "just be friends" is not encouraged; it simply doesn't work on any consistency with younger women in their late teens to early twenties. After thirties, it can be quite different, but I have no interest in dating women older than myself.
 
  • #16
119
2


I think there are two types of guys: the Jersey/Geordie Shore kind that sees it like a game and girls as conquests, and the heart on your sleeve/treat people nicely kinda guy who would get to know a girl on a deeper level as an individual. Each attracts a different kind of girl.

I prefer the latter - makes me feel more special! and would make a better long-term partner. But I guess some guys would prefer to be the former, and value quantity over quality.
 
  • #17
Lichdar


I think the dicotomy is a bit silly, to be honest. You can be perfectly assertive without looking at it necessarily as a game. Sometimes its worth it just to know the psychology of other people better, if you want to improve communication. Its only respectful, in its own way.
 
  • #18
119
2


I think the dicotomy is a bit silly, to be honest. You can be perfectly assertive without looking at it necessarily as a game. Sometimes its worth it just to know the psychology of other people better, if you want to improve communication. Its only respectful, in its own way.
it is a dichotomy! I like dichotomies :) and it is only silly in the brain of the reader, depending on who the reader is.
 
  • #19
Lichdar


Black and white help simplify, but objectively verifiable truth is greyscale.
 
  • #20
119
2


Powerflow: I think you dont know what to say to people because you are thinking about yourself too much. Be more interested in the other person - see what about them is interesting to you, and then you will naturally come up with loads of questions! and you know everyone's favourite subject is themselves. once you start asking, you dont have to worry about coming up with stories to tell them! and as they talk they will want to ask you about yourself! win/win!
 
  • #21
119
2


Black and white help simplify, but objectively verifiable truth is greyscale.
lol, and what is it but a grey world we live in!
 
  • #22
turbo
Gold Member
3,077
45


Powerflow: I think you dont know what to say to people because you are thinking about yourself too much. Be more interested in the other person - see what about them is interesting to you, and then you will naturally come up with loads of questions! and you know everyone's favourite subject is themselves. once you start asking, you dont have to worry about coming up with stories to tell them! and as they talk they will want to ask you about yourself! win/win!
Please pay attention to what nucleargirl is telling you. When I was a freshman in engineering school, I asked a tall, leggy blonde if I could sit at her table for lunch. She pulled out the chair next to her and said "I've been saving this for you." That spontaneous reaction and her sense of humor made me fall in love! Guess what we talked about? I asked about her studies (art history, as it turned out) and her family (stay-at-home mother and a father who was a professor at Harvard), and we were bonded. Be nice, be approachable, and be available when your female friend wants company. Romance will come. You might get a thrill from a weekend fling, but that is not the basis for a relationship. Dating is NOT the end-all, but just the beginning of what might be a nice long-lasting partnership.
 
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  • #23
119
2


Be nice, be approachable, and be available when your female friend wants company. Romance will come. You might get a thrill from a weekend fling, but that is not the basis for a relationship. Dating is NOT the end-all, but just the beginning of what might be a nice long-lasting partnership.
Exactly! :approve:
 
  • #24
7
0


Hi!

OK, first of all, I have to say post #10 by nucleargirl really kind of got to me. I agree with what she says: Basically, I will go on and give my best with my studies. I will not postpone life and fun entirely but catch as much of it as I can. In fact, that's how I'm living right now: I am trying to fit both studying and socializing into my schedule, with studying being the no 1 priority.

Concerning women, I definitely have to go with Lichdar and kramer. According to my experience, being the nice guy is the easiest and most surefire way to avoiding romantic relationships. I have been a master practicioner of the nice guy way for years and now want to break out.
 
  • #25


good for you man , i know how you feel man
 

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