How to Sell Myself Better & Be More Attractive for Dating

In summary: Build a rapport, and then you can start to work on getting closer romantically. In summary, this guy is trying to be a better person, but he has trouble getting close to women because he doesn't know how to start a conversation. He is afraid of being cocky or funny, which can turn off girls. He should try to be a good friend first, and then try to get closer to girls.
  • #1
powerflow
7
0
Hey,

my problem is that I really want to flirt with girls and have dates badly. However, when approaching a girls, I feel that I have no plan. If I start a conversation anyway, it might sometimes go OK in like the first 20 seconds, but then I end up not really knowing what to say. I know being cocky and funny is important and telling stories is important, but so far, I am not good enough at that.

What strikes me about this weakness is that in the last couple of months, I have undergone incredibly great changes (as never happened before in such a short time) and in terms of personal development, I was very successful. I tried many new things, put in some effort, and I succeeded. Flirting stands out: I have no success, no dates here.

I won't bore you with my life story, but these facts are important: I grew up with my parents who are very old and conservative and basically fear the whole world. I had grown incredibly dependent on them, and whenever I did or wanted something contrary to their 'recommendations', it made me feel terrible. They felt it is most important for me to study well and also felt that 'distractions' like going out in the evenings, socialising and, most of all, having a girlfriend, will eventually make me fail my studies and ruin me.

Last summer, turning 23, I decided to change everything. I started continuously implementing the things that are important to me in my life and finally began acting contrary to what my parents wanted. Now, 9 months later, I have accomplished a lot:

  • I applied and got accepted at one of the most prestigious Universities in the world for my Master's. I will move away from my parents in only a couple of months to take that course.
  • I am paying attention to my diet and I am regularly working out. My physique has improved a lot.
  • I am now aware of fashion and I have compiled a good-looking wardrobe.
  • I socialise with my friends a lot more than I used to, and I love it.
  • I am taking art lessons every week now (I am passionate about certain types of art).
  • I am not afraid anymore and I take risks all the time. I do not need approval from my parents anymore. Investing so much time for my own well-being (i.e. socialising, sports, fashion) leaves less time for study right now. A year ago, such a thought would have made me sick of fear. Now it is OK, I give my best and just don't feel so much fear anymore.
  • All of the above are my work, I planted the ideas, I made them real. There was no one to help me and my parents were very strictly agains all of the bullets.

It just hurts that flirting and dating are not something I was able to accomplish, even though I put in lots of effort. I still do have some fear of approaching a woman, but above all, I can't sell myself well, I don't really know how to present myself as an interesting person, how to be attractive. My looks seem OK, my physique is OK, my wardrobe is, too. But I haven't been in a relationship for almost four years, and I really want one. Or at least flirting and having fun.

Maybe you can give me some advice?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2


powerflow said:
Hey,

my problem is that I really want to flirt with girls and have dates badly. However, when approaching a girls, I feel that I have no plan. If I start a conversation anyway, it might sometimes go OK in like the first 20 seconds, but then I end up not really knowing what to say. I know being cocky and funny is important and telling stories is important, but so far, I am not good enough at that.
(Bolding mine). I think you can pull off the last part of the first statement. :devil: That's not a great way to build a relationship, though. Dating is a way to get to know the ladies and get comfortable with one another, so something further might evolve in your relationship. It is NOT important to be "cocky and funny", in fact it can be a real turn-off if you try to come off as the alpha-male. If you are nice, polite, self-effacing, and even a bit klutzy or shy about social stuff sometimes, lots of girls will think you are "nice", "sweet", "cute", etc, and that's going to get you WAY ahead of "cocky and funny".

Remember that your desire for closeness, affection, etc should not be the overriding factor in your relationships with women. First, strive to be a good friend and treat them as treasured friends. Single women are inveterate match-makers, and if they really like you but aren't interested in you romantically, they'll be pitching you to their friends: "I know this really sweet guy that you ought to meet..."

Good luck.
 
Last edited:
  • #3


Just be confident within yourself, and most importantly be yourself.

If you want to meet people, there are plenty of ways to do that. If you want exposure to different types of people in a dating environment, speed dating might interest you. You may find out that the kinds of people there are not your cup of tea, so then you try something like say sporting groups, or other special interest groups.

If you are confident and happy within yourself, people (both male and female) will be attracted to you (and I don't just mean sexually). If you don't be yourself, then you are digging a hole in my opinion. If people don't like you for who you are, then just find other people. If you're not an ******* or some psycho, there's bound to be a group of personalities out there that click with you.

Keep your head up, you'll find someone.
 
  • #4


um, I dunno, but you focus a lot on yourself and what you are lacking. Maybe try to forget all that and focus on the girl and what you like about her. Everyone likes being told how nice and desirable they are, tell her you like her, and see what she does. if she likes you too then ask her to hang out. if she isn't interested, then leave it and find someone else.
Sounds like you are doing pretty good, so just be yourself and do what you love, and I'm sure you will meet girls! especially as you are starting a masters - you will meet people on the course or through their friends. and as you get older there will be more girls your age desperate to get married soon and they will come flocking! don't you worry!
 
  • #5


nucleargirl said:
Everyone likes being told how nice and desirable they are, tell her you like her, and see what she does.

Everyone does like that, but telling a girl how nice and desireable she is is NOT the best way to date her. It is however a great way to boost her ego and make her think she's too good for you.

To the OP:

Do you socialize with women? Do you have a problem talking to them?

If you can talk to a woman, you can flirt with her. You know which women you're attracted to, the issue is attracting her to you.

Tell us, what do you do when trying to flirt with a girl? Or do you have problems even talking with women and starting it?

Obviously you want the conversation to be interesting. Usually when talking to a new girl, you will have to do most of the talking at first. Don't be shy to simply start telling an interesting story about yourself that would interest her. She doesn't know you, so you have to build up an image of yourself. Better to do it early and in a positive way.

One thing to keep in mind is the power of teasing a girl lightly in building attraction. By doing that you're showing you DON'T think she's better than you. If you give off vibes that you're nervous to be talking to a girl or start saying how beautiful she is, she'll feel that she's too good for you and not be interested. If you can gently kid a beautiful girl and show that you're comfortable talking to her, she won't feel that she's too good for you.

Another basic aspect of flirting is touching, which acts as a good proxy for how well the flirting is going. Start out by a gentle, light touch that hardly lasts a second. Something like touching her arm lightly when you say something about her. If she recoils, cool off, if not, try stepping it up bit by bit.

Bringing it all together:

''You know, you have an interesting look. This scarf *touch the scarf* looks like something I would always see in France, but you don't look like the girls there at all...''

Right there you kinda make her a little unsure of herself by saying ''interesting'' instead of pretty etc. You show a bit of comfort/dominance by being unafraid to touch her and her stuff (but don't grab it, just touch it to indicate it) by touching her and you initiate the whole process of touching, and you invite her to ask a question about you by alluding to something interesting about yourself.
 
  • #6


You can honestly learn everything from her if you want to converse better.

http://www.kezia-noble.com/blog/page/4/

She's extremely good at what she does and is extremely hot as well. You might not agree but her methods are in fact real .

One of the things i like asking is "If you could have any superpower in the world, what would it be?"

Also from what this girl has said, being cocky doesn't really work with shy girls. I think you really have to know your audience. But always be alpha
 
  • #7


I just had a conversation with a friend and opened up about my problem and I feel like I got a better idea now what the underlying difficulty is.

I think the real problem is this:

When I wrote that thread, I didn't need to be told that I need to socialize more and in a way I enjoy. Let's face it: I knew that. And let's be honest, I know that socializing is great, that it leads to being open, communicative, and that relationships will come about automatically. It's BS that I need some technique or quick fix or pickup lines to approaching women. I know exactly what I need: Socializing, spending time with my friends (whom I really enjoy), having fun. The rest will come.

What's worrying me is something else. I sacrificed a lot for being admitted to that University for a one-year-Master's program. It's an incredible chance and will open doors (possibly for a great PhD position). I have to be honest with myself and face it: I know myself well enough by now to say that I will NOT socialize in that year. I am not going there for gaining new experiences, I am going there for obtaining very good grades. The results will reach far beyond just that one year. I worked so much for this chance, and for the scholarship to finance that trip. I couldn't and wouldn't allow myself to screw this up.

And here is what I believe to be my core worry: I've caught a glimpse of what it's like to socialize, have friends, meet girls, being more free than I used to be, being able to enjoy the summer with other people than my parents... I adore it! I tasted blood and I want more of that! And I'm scared as **** that now that I am just starting to live, I will have to interrupt this whole adventure for another year. I think this is the core conflict in my soul at this moment.

I feel I'm at a pivotal point in my life. I was deprived of fun with other people for so long. It took me a certain amount of experience, a certain amount of time to get here... I couldn't have done it faster. Had all of this happened like one year earlier, I would have moved out from my parents, and by now, I would have become a happy person with a lovely girlfriend. And I probably would not have had the perfect grades that now allow me to go where I will go.

Probably, it's wrong to see it that way. I guess I want too much too fast. I guess I will evolve gradually and my next year will not put a stop to my progress. I guess I'll have to face that I can't finish my personal development on schedule before I leave town. And I feel that there are still gigantic mountains of crappy, old, inappropriate and plainly wrong ideas in my mind that I will gradually have to identify and get rid of. I guess it's still a long way to go.

I just keep asking myself: Why couldn't my parents been different? Or why wasn't I strong enough to just move out or move to another city after school? I know I wanted to, I had arguments about going to a different city, but they injected me with a lot of fear and they made me stay. I should have been more determined back then. It took me my whole Bachelor's to realize what's going on and start changing.
 
  • #8


powerflow said:
I just keep asking myself: Why couldn't my parents been different? Or why wasn't I strong enough to just move out or move to another city after school? I know I wanted to, I had arguments about going to a different city, but they injected me with a lot of fear and they made me stay. I should have been more determined back then. It took me my whole Bachelor's to realize what's going on and start changing.
We are all different. Still, it seems that your parents wanted to keep you close and provide you with a stable environment, and that's not a bad motivation when they are concerned about their child.

You should have a long and productive life, and if you have to sacrifice some social contact, fun, etc to pursue your masters degree, that year won't seem too long in retrospect years from now. Good luck!
 
  • #9


powerflow said:
I just had a conversation with a friend and opened up about my problem and I feel like I got a better idea now what the underlying difficulty is.

I think the real problem is this:

It's BS that I need some technique or quick fix or pickup lines to approaching women. I know exactly what I need: Socializing, spending time with my friends (whom I really enjoy), having fun. The rest will come.

What you should really do is be more confident. Bring forth the high energy and girls will love you for it. Not anything neutral or negative. JUST POSITIVE ENERGY! The lines are a guide line to sort of have a structure to work at. I don't know if you do jiu jitsu, or any grappling or martial arts but when you first start jiu jitsu, you're given a sort of step by step guide to do a move. But as you move further into the art, you realize that all these things are can be broken down into concepts and laws you must obey. This is similar to what socializing is. Atleast for me.

Also there's no such thing as a pickup line. No one line will make a girl have an instant orgasm and want you for sex. There's things such as openers to open up a conversation.Also I don't understand why you couldn't socialize and do your studies at the same time. At my local university, there's a chemistry professor who does judo 3+ times a week and researches.
 
Last edited:
  • #10


I agree with Turbo! When you've done your masters you will have your whole life to socialise and whatever! and when you look back it will seem like no time. Dont worry about what's gonnahappen in the future, or what had happened in the past. You are in a great position right now and that's worth celebrating! you should enjoy right now! you still have what, 3 months until your course starts, that's plenty of time to have fun! and who knows, you might have so much fun that by the time your course starts you would have had enough! and would want to knuckle down and study! And if not, you have plenty of time after - you're only like 23, and you are guy so don't need to worry about biolgoical clock ticking out, you can be a playboy until like 90! So enjoy the summer, get your masters good and study well, do a phd or whatever, make loads of money after in business/discover something amazing and be a professor, and you can have all the fun and girls you could want! but of course, studying and fun are not mutually exclusive, you just have to find the right balance - I've known people at uni who got great grades and managed to have a social life and girl/boyfriends. Just have to manage your time and use it on stuff you want.
 
  • #11


The only way to build confidence is practice. My suggestion to on how to get the practice is always the same. Go up to every girl you see, every chance you get and converse. But before you do, have an exit strategy. Keep up the conversation as long as you feel comfortable, but as soon as the comfort level drops, carry out a strategic retreat. I just remembered, I have to pick up some papers for a friend of mine, sorry, but I got to run. Hightail it out of there and prepare for the next attempt. The important thing is not so much to cut and run as it is to realize that you can whenever you feel the need.
 
  • #12


turbo-1 said:
Remember that your desire for closeness, affection, etc should not be the overriding factor in your relationships with women. First, strive to be a good friend and treat them as treasured friends.

Friendzone.

That is /not/ the way to go if you wish to pursue relations on your own or prefer to do your own chasing. Sadly or otherwise, treating girls as friends solely and by itself, is a surefire way to never being able to escalate it to anything romantic.

Personal experience indicates that there might be a right way about approaching that friendship so that you can still make it romantic later, but its certainly not the usual friendship - pretty much you have to flirt, and do so heavily.
 
  • #13


Lichdar said:
Friendzone.

That is /not/ the way to go if you wish to pursue relations on your own or prefer to do your own chasing. Sadly or otherwise, treating girls as friends solely and by itself, is a surefire way to never being able to escalate it to anything romantic.

Personal experience indicates that there might be a right way about approaching that friendship so that you can still make it romantic later, but its certainly not the usual friendship - pretty much you have to flirt, and do so heavily.

This guy speaks the truth.
 
  • #14


kramer733 said:
This guy speaks the truth.
Please! Be nice to women and be close to them! That's what let's friendship and closeness blossom into romance. Pursuing women as if you are a predator is exactly the wrong way to get a decent mate. This kind of mentality is why the US has such a high divorce rate, IMO.

If you are always deal-making in your relationships, you will end up with a woman who accepts you on those terms, and will be quite willing to jump ship when a better deal comes along. That's not the basis for a healthy relationship.
 
  • #15


I'm not sure which country you are from, so it might be different, but in the US/UK, not being assertive toward women is essentially a blend of passive-aggressive("I wish I had more with this girl, but I don't know, so I'll just play it safe and be her friend until maybe she sees me as more") and extremely passive("I'll wait for her to set me up with someone.").

Neither are particularly attractive, which is why 'niceness' is often so negatively viewed. Its almost hypocritical in a way, and certainly not very honest. And its angst, unpleasant and extremely disempowered - nothing which helps it be more masculine.

I don't think its deal-making at all, and I don't see it as dealmaking. If anything, its more primal and from personal experience, it works. And being in pursuit is certainly more natural, and heck of a lot more encouraging to think you are choosing, rather than just being chosen.

There's a reason why "just be friends" is not encouraged; it simply doesn't work on any consistency with younger women in their late teens to early twenties. After thirties, it can be quite different, but I have no interest in dating women older than myself.
 
  • #16


I think there are two types of guys: the Jersey/Geordie Shore kind that sees it like a game and girls as conquests, and the heart on your sleeve/treat people nicely kinda guy who would get to know a girl on a deeper level as an individual. Each attracts a different kind of girl.

I prefer the latter - makes me feel more special! and would make a better long-term partner. But I guess some guys would prefer to be the former, and value quantity over quality.
 
  • #17


I think the dicotomy is a bit silly, to be honest. You can be perfectly assertive without looking at it necessarily as a game. Sometimes its worth it just to know the psychology of other people better, if you want to improve communication. Its only respectful, in its own way.
 
  • #18


Lichdar said:
I think the dicotomy is a bit silly, to be honest. You can be perfectly assertive without looking at it necessarily as a game. Sometimes its worth it just to know the psychology of other people better, if you want to improve communication. Its only respectful, in its own way.

it is a dichotomy! I like dichotomies :) and it is only silly in the brain of the reader, depending on who the reader is.
 
  • #19


Black and white help simplify, but objectively verifiable truth is greyscale.
 
  • #20


Powerflow: I think you don't know what to say to people because you are thinking about yourself too much. Be more interested in the other person - see what about them is interesting to you, and then you will naturally come up with loads of questions! and you know everyone's favourite subject is themselves. once you start asking, you don't have to worry about coming up with stories to tell them! and as they talk they will want to ask you about yourself! win/win!
 
  • #21


Lichdar said:
Black and white help simplify, but objectively verifiable truth is greyscale.

lol, and what is it but a grey world we live in!
 
  • #22


nucleargirl said:
Powerflow: I think you don't know what to say to people because you are thinking about yourself too much. Be more interested in the other person - see what about them is interesting to you, and then you will naturally come up with loads of questions! and you know everyone's favourite subject is themselves. once you start asking, you don't have to worry about coming up with stories to tell them! and as they talk they will want to ask you about yourself! win/win!
Please pay attention to what nucleargirl is telling you. When I was a freshman in engineering school, I asked a tall, leggy blonde if I could sit at her table for lunch. She pulled out the chair next to her and said "I've been saving this for you." That spontaneous reaction and her sense of humor made me fall in love! Guess what we talked about? I asked about her studies (art history, as it turned out) and her family (stay-at-home mother and a father who was a professor at Harvard), and we were bonded. Be nice, be approachable, and be available when your female friend wants company. Romance will come. You might get a thrill from a weekend fling, but that is not the basis for a relationship. Dating is NOT the end-all, but just the beginning of what might be a nice long-lasting partnership.
 
Last edited:
  • #23


turbo-1 said:
Be nice, be approachable, and be available when your female friend wants company. Romance will come. You might get a thrill from a weekend fling, but that is not the basis for a relationship. Dating is NOT the end-all, but just the beginning of what might be a nice long-lasting partnership.

Exactly! :approve:
 
  • #24


Hi!

OK, first of all, I have to say post #10 by nucleargirl really kind of got to me. I agree with what she says: Basically, I will go on and give my best with my studies. I will not postpone life and fun entirely but catch as much of it as I can. In fact, that's how I'm living right now: I am trying to fit both studying and socializing into my schedule, with studying being the no 1 priority.

Concerning women, I definitely have to go with Lichdar and kramer. According to my experience, being the nice guy is the easiest and most surefire way to avoiding romantic relationships. I have been a master practicioner of the nice guy way for years and now want to break out.
 
  • #25


good for you man , i know how you feel man
 
  • #26


I'm not too old (24y) and thus don't have lots of experience(2 long term relationships, one still going). But if I gave advice, it'd be something like this:

First, try to identify what kind of girl you would like to have beside you with as much accuracy as possible. For example, my prerequisites for any girl:

1)take care of themselves physically (have some exercise during the week, eat well, sleep well, etc)

2)take care of themselves mentally (allow themselves free time each week to hang with friends, or watch an interesting documentary or read a book)

3)are intelligent. Actually I would prefer her to be a bit more intelligent than me, it'd give me something to learn.

These are the characteristics that I find essential to her. It will make me like her or make her a friend of mine, but not fall in love with her. To that:

1) She has an open mind. I don't care about her dogmas or disorders or anything (unless they somehow affect me) but I ABSOLUTELY INSIST that she is willing to discuss everything. If this is not the case, I could never maintain a relationship with her. One reason I like long term relationships is that I learn everything I can about the person. It makes me better too. If she is not willing to let me know her, then I lose this.

2) She leaves me alone when I ask her. Of course I too have no problem to discuss anything, but there may be not enough time! I WILL continue any conversation she asks me but there may be more pressing matters at the moment (like homework). I want her to understand that.

After that, I consider some things as a bonus like:

1) She likes to achieve. I like that too and that makes us understand each other.
2) She studies the same things. In this I am lucky, my girlfriend and I are in the same undergrad. We can NEVER find moments when there is nothing to discuss. On the other hand someone might find it a disadvantage that we mix work with a relationship, and sometimes it is.

Well there you are. Have your own list of things you look for! After that it's pretty easy, all you have to do is to develop strategies to attract that kind of girl. That comes only with experience, but not too much. Don't feel bad if you fail sometimes, just live and learn! Don't get attached too soon or you might get hurt. Also know that what you look for in a mate changes with time.

For example such a girl as I have described above certainly likes an intelligent conversation. Try reading philosophy and bringing it in a conversation. Don't go too far since some people might freak out if you go on them like "there is no god" or "the world might be a dream". People don't like it when you doubt their most basic believes, especially if they don't know you well enough. If you study the same things, this should be much easier. Also this gives you an incentive to be a good student, if you can outsmart her in certain subjects, she will certainly be interested! But don't belittle her.

Anyway I have been writing for too long, but I think I gave an idea of what I mean!
 
  • #27


constantinos i totally agree with you
 
  • #28


powerflow said:
Concerning women, I definitely have to go with Lichdar and kramer. According to my experience, being the nice guy is the easiest and most surefire way to avoiding romantic relationships. I have been a master practicioner of the nice guy way for years and now want to break out.

The thing is, ironically, I don't disagree with turbo-1 once he demonstrated his example. I don't believe his definition of a 'nice guy' is the same of ours; he definitely displays how to be assertive, shows a great deal of comfort and probably wouldn't go too out of his way to be nice.

The problem is that a lot of guys, and possibly yourself(as was myself) conflated 'nice' with 'doormat'. Its certainly more than acceptable to be nice, and I think that I'm a pretty good guy; being a doormat and passive is just going to get yourself stepped on, though.

Constantinos said:
etc

Some of your positions seem self-contradictory - you allow for disorders, but insist on them "taking care of themselves" mentally and physically. The reason why such disorders are persistent usually lies in some lack of care in themselves.

But I like the idea of having a goal and working to achieve it, definitely, allowing for the fact that love is often not predictable.
 
  • #29


Lichdar said:
The problem is that a lot of guys conflated 'nice' with 'doormat'. Its certainly more than acceptable to be nice, and I think that I'm a pretty good guy; being a doormat and passive is just going to get yourself stepped on, though.

Yeah I agree. I think girls generally dislike doormats! We want confidence, not arrogance. Nice, but still able to take control! Its just more attractive...
being a doormat might get you stepped on, but it just isn't going to get you a confident girl. it might get you a controlling one.
 

1. How can I improve my confidence and self-esteem to be more attractive for dating?

Improving your confidence and self-esteem can be a process, but there are a few things you can do to start feeling more confident. First, focus on your strengths and unique qualities. Make a list of things you like about yourself and remind yourself of them regularly. Also, try to maintain a positive attitude and surround yourself with supportive and positive people. Additionally, taking care of yourself physically by exercising, eating well, and practicing good self-care can also boost your confidence.

2. What can I do to make a good first impression and stand out while dating?

The key to making a good first impression is to be yourself and be authentic. Be confident in who you are and don't try to be someone you're not. Also, make an effort to listen and engage in conversation, ask questions, and show genuine interest in the other person. Additionally, be mindful of your body language and make eye contact to show that you are engaged and interested.

3. How important is it to have a positive mindset and attitude while dating?

Having a positive mindset and attitude is crucial in dating. People are naturally drawn to positivity and it can help create a more enjoyable and fulfilling dating experience. It also shows that you are confident and have a good sense of self-worth. However, it is also important to be realistic and not let a positive mindset blind you from potential red flags or deal-breakers.

4. How can I effectively communicate my interests and intentions while dating?

Communication is key in any relationship, including dating. It's important to be open and honest about your interests and intentions from the beginning. Be clear and direct in your communication and make sure to listen to the other person's perspective as well. It's also important to set boundaries and communicate them clearly to ensure that both parties are on the same page.

5. Are there any specific qualities or traits that make someone more attractive for dating?

Attraction is subjective, so there is no one specific trait or quality that makes someone more attractive for dating. However, some common qualities that are often seen as attractive include confidence, a sense of humor, intelligence, kindness, and a good listener. Ultimately, being genuine and true to yourself is the most attractive quality, as people are drawn to authenticity and sincerity.

Similar threads

Replies
15
Views
588
  • General Discussion
Replies
6
Views
804
Replies
1
Views
851
Replies
8
Views
883
  • General Discussion
Replies
2
Views
626
  • General Discussion
Replies
12
Views
909
Replies
14
Views
847
Replies
17
Views
889
  • General Discussion
Replies
4
Views
605
Replies
1
Views
661
Back
Top