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Main Question or Discussion Point
the name Horodecki?
Is it (hoe | haw)-row-(desk | deck (rhymes with neck) )-i?
Is it (hoe | haw)-row-(desk | deck (rhymes with neck) )-i?
How does one pronounce
- Thread starter WiFO215
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Answers and Replies
- #2
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May be it would help to mention the language of origin (if you know that).
- #3
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Ho ro det ski. I googled it to find that is a Polish name. Then I used google translate to translate it from English to Polish. Then I used the pronunciation button to hear how it sounds.
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- #4
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Yes, it is a Polish name. Thanks so much Jimmy! I take it that the s is pronounced like a z similar to German.
- #5
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I recommend you use google translate to translate it from English to Polish. Then use the pronunciation button to hear how it sounds.
- #6
OmCheeto
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I ran across another web site that seems to imply that it's pronounce Gorodetski
Словник лемківских прізвищ = Dictionary of Lemko surnames
Horodecki = Городецький = Gorodetski
Though if one assumes it's a Polish name, then another site implies Horodecki is pronounced Khorodeski.
H, h - ch as in loch (slightly gutteral kh)
Perhaps we should ask Borek.
Trivia side note:
Notable Lemkos
Andy Warhol (birth name Warhola), major figure in the pop art movement
Словник лемківских прізвищ = Dictionary of Lemko surnames
Horodecki = Городецький = Gorodetski
Though if one assumes it's a Polish name, then another site implies Horodecki is pronounced Khorodeski.
H, h - ch as in loch (slightly gutteral kh)
Perhaps we should ask Borek.
Trivia side note:
Notable Lemkos
Andy Warhol (birth name Warhola), major figure in the pop art movement
- #7
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Possibly useful technique:
lifehacker.com/5896419/use-youtube-to-learn-how-to-pronounce-proper-nouns
lifehacker.com/5896419/use-youtube-to-learn-how-to-pronounce-proper-nouns
If no results arise with the "cc" tag, try the search again without it.
- #8
Bandersnatch
Science Advisor
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Pole reporting for duty.
Long story short, Jimmy Snyder's Google Transalate idea lets you hear it pretty much exactly like it's supposed to be pronounced. A short trill at /r/ would make it practically perfect.
For those of you who would prefer an IPA transcript:
/hɒrɒ'detski/ - using RP English approximations
/xɔrɔ'detski/ - using IPA chart for Polish
If IPA looks like black magic to you, here's the explanation of the sounds:
The /x/ sounds like /h/ in "hamiltionian". The "loch" example of OmCheeto's might be misleading here, as at least in RP English the "ch" is pronounced as /k/.
The vowel /ɔ/ is almost exactly like the RP English /ɒ/ in "optics". For those of you across the pond who don't use that sound, it's a short version of /ɔ:/ as in "orbital".
The /r/ is slightly trilled(like in "Bremsstrahlung"), unlike it's English approximation, athough using the English version of the sound is perfectly understandable. Even some locals can't trill their /r/s, so you shoudn't worry too much about that.
The stress lands on the second but last syllable(as in most Polish words).
Polish /d/ is dental rather than alveolar, but it's a minor difference. You can try keeping the tip of the tongue touching your teeth rather than the alveolar ridge for extra-pronounciation points. Otherwise it's just as in "dimension".
The /e/ vowel is pronounced just as "e" in "let" in Standard American and RP English.
/ts/ is pronounced as a single, short sound. There should be no emphasis on /t/ nor lingering on /s/. Otherwise it's just your regular /ts/ as in "Hertz".
/k/ is no different than regular English /k/ as in "spaghettification" or "(Shroedinger's) cat".
Finally, /i/ as in "frequency".
But seriously, just do the Google Translate trick and you're gold. ;)
Long story short, Jimmy Snyder's Google Transalate idea lets you hear it pretty much exactly like it's supposed to be pronounced. A short trill at /r/ would make it practically perfect.
For those of you who would prefer an IPA transcript:
/hɒrɒ'detski/ - using RP English approximations
/xɔrɔ'detski/ - using IPA chart for Polish
If IPA looks like black magic to you, here's the explanation of the sounds:
The /x/ sounds like /h/ in "hamiltionian". The "loch" example of OmCheeto's might be misleading here, as at least in RP English the "ch" is pronounced as /k/.
The vowel /ɔ/ is almost exactly like the RP English /ɒ/ in "optics". For those of you across the pond who don't use that sound, it's a short version of /ɔ:/ as in "orbital".
The /r/ is slightly trilled(like in "Bremsstrahlung"), unlike it's English approximation, athough using the English version of the sound is perfectly understandable. Even some locals can't trill their /r/s, so you shoudn't worry too much about that.
The stress lands on the second but last syllable(as in most Polish words).
Polish /d/ is dental rather than alveolar, but it's a minor difference. You can try keeping the tip of the tongue touching your teeth rather than the alveolar ridge for extra-pronounciation points. Otherwise it's just as in "dimension".
The /e/ vowel is pronounced just as "e" in "let" in Standard American and RP English.
/ts/ is pronounced as a single, short sound. There should be no emphasis on /t/ nor lingering on /s/. Otherwise it's just your regular /ts/ as in "Hertz".
/k/ is no different than regular English /k/ as in "spaghettification" or "(Shroedinger's) cat".
Finally, /i/ as in "frequency".
But seriously, just do the Google Translate trick and you're gold. ;)
- #9
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Thanks a lot guys!
- #10
sixholdens
Why does it have to be so hard to pronounce what is written!!? Hidden "trills" and "zzz's" that are written as a completely different letter. "G's" that are written as "H" and on and on. Reminds me of the old method of keeping the ignorant ignorant, make it a religion and only the "priest" is allowed to know!
Secrets, secrets, secrets, that is what the whole thing is about, written language NOT resembling the spoken. Probably why it is so hard for English speakers to learn another language, our own is so convoluted if causes our brain to freeze when additional BS is introduced and it recognizes the uselessness of even more rules.
hoe-row-deck-e is what my brain would have said had I needed to verbalize it, of course my brain would have taken the American English short cuts taught it over the last 50+ years by reading lots and looking for "proper" pronunciation rarely.
Secrets, secrets, secrets, that is what the whole thing is about, written language NOT resembling the spoken. Probably why it is so hard for English speakers to learn another language, our own is so convoluted if causes our brain to freeze when additional BS is introduced and it recognizes the uselessness of even more rules.
hoe-row-deck-e is what my brain would have said had I needed to verbalize it, of course my brain would have taken the American English short cuts taught it over the last 50+ years by reading lots and looking for "proper" pronunciation rarely.
- #11
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Maybe it's at this point to casually drop off the Ghoti Fish meme once more?
- #12
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I post this from time to time. It has been attributed to Mark Twain, but that attribution is in dispute.
For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and Iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all.
Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai Iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x" -- bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez -- tu riplais "ch", "sh", and "th" rispektivli.
Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.
For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and Iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all.
Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai Iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x" -- bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez -- tu riplais "ch", "sh", and "th" rispektivli.
Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.
- #13
AlephZero
Science Advisor
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It doesn't have to be, but accurate notation of the sound isn't necessarily easy to read either. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devanagari uses different symbols for just about every possible sound (and it pre-dates the IPA by many centuries!)
- #14
Borek
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Go to http://www.ivona.com/en/ and select Polish, Jacek or Polish, Ewa (other Poles are much worse).
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A good thing about Indian languages using Devanagari and scripts based on it, is that words are pronounced almost exactly the way they are written (although Hindi has some exceptions, Sanskrit is pretty strict on such things and pronunciation is not a hassle). So no silent letters or stuff like that.
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There's an MMA fighter with that name. The announcers pronounce it Ho Ro Des Ki. But they're no authority on pronouncing names.