How high can a helium baloon rise to space?

[Deleted member 656102]

Hey i have these ideas in which i use helium baloons. I wonder how high does it go and what is the gravity force and pressure at this point?

 

[CWatters]

Perhaps google HAB altitude calculator or HAB burst calculator.

I think UK may hold world record...

https://ukhas.org.uk/general:uk_records

 

[Deleted member 656102]

Just about answers my question. After that it can go any higher? Because of the particle density or what?

Is there an alternative to helium that can go higher?

 

[A.T.]

Is there an alternative to helium that can go higher?

Hydrogen.

 

[fresh_42]

I assume the altitude depends on the capability of the balloon material to stretch and its weight.

 

[Deleted member 656102]

Nasa was giving milion dollars for this but here it is.

This is a lif that is (HUGE) made out of segments. Each segment is conected but every segment carries only the weight of it self. The lift liftes the cargo each segment at a time until it reaches its final destination. At the top should probably be a larger segment... like a liftoff base. But the advantage is that the rockets should be much smaller. Its just a concept. Please, witouth the negative additude.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Hydrogen.

Under no circumstances would I advise someone inexperienced to use hydrogen. Under very few circumstances would I even advise someone experienced to use hydrogen.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Please, witouth the negative additude.

Sorry, I know you've said you're a genius (https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/inventor-wanting-to-start-prototyping.964169/#post-6118245), but this won't work.

A balloon has to lift at least its own weight. The weight scales as the square of the radius. The lift scales as the cube of its radius. That means you want one big balloon and not multiple small balloons.

 

[Deleted member 656102]

Sorry, I know you've said you're a genius (https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/inventor-wanting-to-start-prototyping.964169/#post-6118245), but this won't work.

A balloon has to lift at least its own weight. The weight scales as the square of the radius. The lift scales as the cube of its radius. That means you want one big balloon and not multiple small balloons.

Actually i tought i was stupid but the tests said that i am a genius, so..

The problem with one big baloon is that this way the cable would be long 40 kilometers.

What do you mean about baloon needing to lift its one weight, what about zeppelins? They carried weight.

 

[ZapperZ]

Actually i tought i was stupid but the tests said that i am a genius, so..

The problem with one big baloon is that this way the cable would be long 40 kilometers.

What do you mean about baloon needing to lift its one weight, what about zeppelins? They carried weight.

Quick, clarifying question: Are you familiar with the concept of buoyancy and Archimedes Principle?

I think there are people who have responded to you and assumed that you know this. I'm not so sure that you do.

Zz.

 

[Deleted member 656102]

Quick, clarifying question: Are you familiar with the concept of buoyancy and Archimedes Principle?

I think there are people who have responded to you and assumed that you know this. I'm not so sure that you do.

Zz.

No i don't know.

So you seem like a reasonable guy.
Can you tell me in common english what's the problem with this?

Edit: If you carry one killo at a time its progress.

 

[ZapperZ]

No i don't know.

So you seem like a reasonable guy.
Can you tell me in common english what's the problem with this?

Edit: If you carry one killo at a time its progress.

Then maybe that is where you should start. I recommend looking up Archimedes principle.

For example, why do you think blimps and hot-air balloons are often very large in size? And another thing for you to consider, if these things are in vacuum, this wouldn't work, i.e. there will be no uplift.

Zz.

 

[Deleted member 656102]

I came to this forum to look for explanations and ideas for my inventions, didnt know this was a forum only for PhD's in Physics.
I would like to learn physics but i don't have time because it would take me about 6 years.

My Elevators baloons are also big, actually, they would be the biggest ever built.

And yes, i know that in vacuum there is no uplift. The plan was to take it as far as it would go.
Doesn't mean that it's the solution but its a possibility.

So to get back to explaining... what's the problem with this?

 

[fresh_42]

I came to this forum to look for explanations and ideas for my inventions, didnt know this was a forum only for PhD's in Physics.

It is not. However, we decided not to copy the entire Wikipedia here.

 

[Deleted member 656102]

If you don't file like explaining don't post. I didn't ask for wikipedia, just some basic explanation. I don't feel like looking trough entire physics classes from beginning to the end the end to see if couple of my ideas work. I was expecting some relaxed comments, and normal communication, but i don't mind.

 

[fresh_42]

So to get back to explaining... what's the problem with this?

Calculate! You have weight, which gives you the amount of gas needed in dependence of height. Then take into consideration, how much your material can be stretched to compensate for the decreasing air pressure. We are not a substitution to Google.

 

[Deleted member 656102]

It is not. However, we decided not to copy the entire Wikipedia here.

Calculate! You have weight, which gives you the amount of gas needed in dependence of height. Then take into consideration, how much your material can be stretched to compensate for the decreasing air pressure. We are not a substitution to Google.

i have 300 different ideas for inventions, and i didn't learn physics in school. Don't feel like talking to google for 2 years to find out, but seems that computers are much more friendly than humans.

 

[ZapperZ]

i have 300 different ideas for inventions, and i didn't learn physics in school. Don't feel like talking to google for 2 years to find out, but seems that computers are much more friendly than humans.

Unfortunately, there are no shortcuts.

This forum, and many of its longtime members, tend to have the philosophy that it is better to teach you how to fish, rather than just give you the fish. It is the most effective way to learn (many of us are also teachers/instructors, so we base this on experience). This way, you understand the fundamental concept related to the problem, and you will be able to tackle the same type of problem next time.

The issue with just giving you an answer is that it very seldom ENDS there! We often find ourselves explaining our explanation, because the questioner does not understand the stuff that one needs to be able to comprehend the answer. Then when we explain the explanation, there often will be question on that subsequent explanation. This then becomes the case of trying to go one step forward, but then going 2 steps back.

I tried to give you a "keyword" that you can look up to understand the fundamental physics associated with buoyancy. It will at least allow you to find not only an explanation on why something would "float", but also quantitative description of the physics. I find it extremely puzzling that you can make a claim of the size of your balloon without understanding how to calculate what is needed. Did you simply make a guess? Is this good enough?

There are many valuable lessons here that you can learn from your interaction with the members of this forum so far. As always, we can lead you to water, but we can't make you drink it. The effort falls on you. If you are looking for instant gratification, then you may have found the wrong place.

Zz.

Edit: After I wrote all that, it looks like the OP has "left the building"! :)

 

[berkeman]

Edit: After I wrote all that, it looks like the OP has "left the building"! :)

Yeah, weird. Okay, thanks everybody for trying to help this person learn how to fish!