How valuable would physical chem 1 and 2 be for a physics major?

In summary, the individual is considering taking both physical chemistry I and II courses, but is unsure of their value to a physics major planning to attend graduate school. They are also unsure of the structure of the course and whether it would be more beneficial to a physics or chemistry student. However, some individuals advise against taking both courses and recommend considering personal interests and learning instead.
  • #1
leright
1,318
19
technically, I only need one or the other to pick up my chem minor, but I might take both. How valuable would they be to a physics major planning to go to graduate school?

I would like to take them both, but would grad schools care all that much? I am honestly not sure where I want to do research when in grad school, so I guess it could depend...

But what is your take on this? should I just take the course or will it be a waste of time? keep in mind that I am taking one or the other regardless to finish my chem minor...

edit: and sorry for all of the damn threads I have been starting lately...I just have lots of questions I guess...and it's hard to find advisors during the summer. :tongue2:
 
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  • #2
leright said:
edit: and sorry for all of the damn threads I have been starting lately...I just have lots of questions I guess...and it's hard to find advisors during the summer. :tongue2:


yeah, seriously. I'm going to have to wait a few more weeks before asking around about those statistics courses...

after all is said and done, i'd re-ask your questions to the relevant advisers.

can't help you with this chem stuff... but i guess posting the course descriptions would help other people?
 
  • #3
Brad Barker said:
but i guess posting the course descriptions would help other people?

good point.
:tongue:

physical chem 1:
"Prerequisites: Calculus 3, U. Physics 2, Organic Chem 2. The First and Second Laws of Thermo- dynamics, with applications to phase transformations and chemical reactions. Introduction to quantum theory.
Lect. 3 hrs. 3 hours credit"

physical chem 2:
"Prerequisites: Calculus 3, U. Physics 2, Organic Chem 2. Atomic and molecular structure and spectra. Statistical Thermodynamics. Kinetic theory of gases and chemical kinetics.
Lect. 4 hrs. 4 hours credit
Note: physical chem 1 and physical chem 2 are independent courses and can be taken in either order."

edit: here's the thermal physics course too. Normally I'd have to take this, but the natsci. chair said he'd waive it if I took both physical chem 1 and 2. I might take it anyways, in addition to the pchem 1/2.

Thermal physics:
Prerequisite: Contemporary physics. Logical discussion of entropy, temperature, the Boltzman factor, the chemical potential, the Gibbs factor, distribution functions,
semiconductor statistics, heat and work.
Lect. 3 hrs. 3 hours credit
 
Last edited:
  • #4
Come on, there's got to be a chemical physicist on here somewhere...
 
  • #5
If you got to ask, it ain't going to do you a damned bit of good. - the P-chemmer.
 
  • #6
P chem should just really be called chemical physics. at the heart of pchem is just thermodynamics and quantum theory with a tad bit more of chemistry than what you would learn if say you took thermo and qm in physics. if the physics dept would let you take Pchem I and II instead of a semester of thermo and qm it would definitely be worth it if you also had some interest in chemistry. other than that you don't want to take the same material twice.
 
  • #7
gravenewworld said:
P chem should just really be called chemical physics. at the heart of pchem is just thermodynamics and quantum theory with a tad bit more of chemistry than what you would learn if say you took thermo and qm in physics. if the physics dept would let you take Pchem I and II instead of a semester of thermo and qm it would definitely be worth it if you also had some interest in chemistry. other than that you don't want to take the same material twice.

No, I could take pchem 1 and 2 instead of thermal physics...but not instead of BOTH thermal physics and qm.

I plan on taking qm, pchem 1 and 2, and thermal physics. I just need pchem 1 for my chem minor, but I may tack on pchem 2 just for the hell of it.
 
  • #8
Bystander said:
If you got to ask, it ain't going to do you a damned bit of good. - the P-chemmer.

oh come on...what kind of advice is this? :rolleyes:
 
  • #9
leright said:
oh come on...what kind of advice is this? :rolleyes:

the best kind. :cool:


:tongue:
 
  • #10
Brad Barker said:
the best kind. :cool:


:tongue:

I'm a sophomore physics student. Not like I know what physical chem consists of...
 
  • #11
leright said:
I'm a sophomore physics student. Not like I know what physical chem consists of...


i was kidding. :tongue:
 
  • #12
leright said:
oh come on...what kind of advice is this? :rolleyes:

You're asking this forum what courses to use to pad your transcript, rather than yourself what you can learn and want to learn. That's what kinda advice that is.
 
  • #13
Bystander said:
You're asking this forum what courses to use to pad your transcript, rather than yourself what you can learn and want to learn. That's what kinda advice that is.

yes, part of the reason I am asking is to determine if it is a good transcript padder...sure. But I am also wondering how a typical physical chemistry course is structured, beyond a simple course description in a course catalog. Is it structured like a typical chemistry course taught to chemistry majors, but with a focus on qm and thermodynamics principles (meaning, physics APPLIED to chemistry), OR is it structured more like a physics course with a little chemistry thrown in?

Basically, are the ways in which the concepts are layed out useful to a physics student, or are they just useful to a chemistry student.

Unlike you, I haven't been exposed to any physical chemistry so I am unsure what to expect. Therefore, this is a reasonable question to ask...
 
  • #14
leright said:
(snip)
Basically, are the ways in which the concepts are layed out useful to a physics student, or are they just useful to a chemistry student.

(snip)..

Nothing outside a departmental course in physics is ever useful to a physics student. (sarcasm off) You ain't interested in learning a damned thing; you're planning on putting in "seat time" for a Ph.D.; and you want approval from outside sources? You'd best sit down with your advisors in both departments and have a "heart to heart."

"Seat time" without learning and padding in transcripts will get you a long way in management, politics, and other fraudulent endeavors --- it goes nowhere in the sciences.
 
  • #15
Bystander said:
Nothing outside a departmental course in physics is ever useful to a physics student. (sarcasm off) You ain't interested in learning a damned thing; you're planning on putting in "seat time" for a Ph.D.; and you want approval from outside sources? You'd best sit down with your advisors in both departments and have a "heart to heart."

"Seat time" without learning and padding in transcripts will get you a long way in management, politics, and other fraudulent endeavors --- it goes nowhere in the sciences.


:rolleyes: My goal of going to school is to learn, because I truly enjoy learning about the subject matter. Just to let you know...I am taking the physical chemistry course whether it is 'useful' to a physicist or not, because I believe that the course will be interesting. Trust me, the most important thing to me is that I learn, and padding my transcript to get into grad school certainly takes a back seat.

Also, financial endeavors have nothing to do with me wanting to attend graduate school. You are making a lot of nasty assumptions, which are very offensive. Making blind assumptions also goes nowhere in the sciences.
 
  • #16
leright said:
:(snip) Just to let you know...I am taking the physical chemistry course whether it is 'useful' to a physicist or not, because I believe that the course will be interesting. (snip).

Your original post is just "Look, Ma, no hands!" then? Someone please spoil the movie for me? Tell me whether the butler did it?

Didn't have to make any assumptions --- what you did NOT say in the OP is a very dead giveaway. You did get around to making the appropriate remarks in the last post --- fine, day late and dollar short, but you get the picture.

QM for a physicist vs. QM for a chemist? Matrix methods vs. Schroedinger. Thermo? Statistical methods vs. classical thermo.

QM? Neither approach includes a clear statement of limits (H and H-like ions), and damned few physics majors are ever prepared to admit that. Thermo? Physicists fail to admit the statistical arguments are "hand-waving" rationalizations of the thermo; chemists don't get into the details of classical thermo much beyond Gibbs.

Physical approaches vs. chemical approaches? Both have severe shortcomings. Taking both approaches as an undergrad? Talk with your advisor.
 

1. How does physical chemistry relate to physics?

Physical chemistry is a branch of chemistry that studies the physical properties and behavior of matter on a molecular and atomic level. It is closely related to physics because both fields deal with understanding and explaining the fundamental laws and principles that govern the behavior of matter and energy.

2. Will taking physical chemistry courses benefit a physics major?

Yes, physical chemistry can be very beneficial for a physics major. It provides a deeper understanding of the underlying principles and concepts that are relevant to both fields. It also helps in developing critical thinking and problem-solving skills, which are essential for success in both physics and physical chemistry.

3. Are the concepts in physical chemistry similar to those in physics?

Yes, there are many overlapping concepts between physical chemistry and physics. Both fields use mathematical models and principles to explain the behavior of matter and energy. However, physical chemistry focuses more on the chemical aspects of matter, while physics focuses more on the physical aspects.

4. Will taking physical chemistry courses be challenging for a physics major?

This can vary from individual to individual. Some physics majors may find physical chemistry challenging because it involves learning new concepts and theories, as well as performing laboratory experiments. However, others may find it easier because they already have a strong foundation in math and physics.

5. Can physical chemistry courses be useful for a career in physics?

Yes, physical chemistry can be very useful for a career in physics. Many areas of physics, such as quantum mechanics, thermodynamics, and spectroscopy, heavily rely on concepts and principles from physical chemistry. Additionally, having a strong understanding of physical chemistry can make a physics major more versatile and marketable in the job market.

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