In retaliation for unprovoked Hamas rocket attacks on Israel.
US urges Hamas to cease rocket attacks on Israel
That would seem to be the key point:
"Cease fire" is supposed to mean something.
Hamas rockets killed 1 israeli
Israeli rockets killed 220 and COUNTING!!!
So you acknowledge there was a violation of the cease fire? Why would you decide to test the cease fire?
I can't even begin to comprehend how this argument could be made now, it's the same as saying that the Jews in a holocaust camp killed a Nazi officer.
Because Hamas broke the truce. They have no one to blame but themselves in this. They know Israel is not going to sit idly by and be attacked, so they should not act surprised that Israel struck back.
To be fair to Hamas, they did announce an end to the cease fire, so it's not exactly a violation.
Of course, I'm sure that they were shocked...shocked...to discover that after announcing that they would go back to killing as many Israelis as they could and then resuming rocket attacks that Israel would retaliate.
I don't know how you could take that angle when 200 (mostly civilians) were just slaughtered, this is by any means an unfair war, israel with it's (US Funded) war machine versus a couple of men with rockets.
Could someone please tell me the difference between what Israel is doing now and what Germany did to the jews in WWII.
This is clearly an unproportional response by the Isreal, that serves no practical purpose other than to invite the hearts and minds of every Palestinian citizen to take up arms and fight. And at the expense of 200 dead (mostly civilian), and US military aid. Genius!!!
But if you look at what US has done in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Israeli counter offensive pales in comparison.
I think it will take another Jesus, Gandhi, or Martin Luther King type of person to resist peacefully and start another movement over there. Otherwise this war will continue ad infinitum.
The targets were not civilian, and the civilian casualties are obviously sad, but if you wish to engage in war, what do you expect?
Oh please, you will lose any argument that starts with such a ridiculous comparison.
Could you tell me why a comparison between those two conflicts should be made?
But let's look at the alternative. Israel does not launch military strikes. Instead, Hamas fires a rocket or two, kills an Israeli or two (and an occasional Palestinian), and then what? Should Israel sit around looking at the sky, ducking when the next Qassam is lobbed at them? This is not a matter of some isolated attack. Hamas has made it clear that it would continue violence against its neighbor without provocation.
Hamas brought this to themselves and those around them. Fire rockets at one's neighbor for years, and call a truce, and fire again... What can you expect?
Did you really think that this would gain any sympathy in the world of war, where the nature of Islam has at last been comprehended in some visceral fashion?
L.O.L so just because Hamas is incompetant, suddenly its O.K!
I mean, Hamas only tried to kill as many people as it could. They never actually suceeded though. How dare they attack us back!!!
Sorry Abdelrahman, you cant have your cake and eat it too.
Were Israel to have fired first with minimal casualties with Hamas returning fire killing hundreds would you still object?
Just a couple of points. The 1 Israeli civilian was killed AFTER Israel launched it's attacks and Israel broke the ceasefire weeks ago first by not lifting the blockade as they had agreed to do under the ceasefire terms and then with targeted assassinations of Hamas officials. In fact for Israel the ceasefire was simply business as usual. But to take up your point. If Israel had killed 1 Palestinian civilan and Hamas responded by killing 271 Israelis I wonder how many on here would be falling over themselves to justify such a response from Palestinians?
This has absolutely nothing to do with ceasefire violations and everything to do with the forthcoming elections in Israel with the candidates each trying to outdo each other on how tough they are.
Israel is a terrorist state whose leaders should be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Gaza is a prison camp whose inhabitants are being slowly starved to death through Israel's blockade and yet when the victims protest or rebel they are vilified. This seems to turn logic on it's head. I find it amazing that so many on here are happy to try and justify mass murder. Many Nazis were executed after WW2 for just such actions.
My opinion of Israel's culpability is echoed by the UN. This from Dec 10th
The targets were very definitely civilian. They went after the police force including dozens killed at a graduating ceremony and the chief of police.
I don't understand this "war"... why are they just lobbing explosives back and forth at each other? It would seem to me that someone should just invade and occupy someone else and be done with it. Of course Hamas would lose :tongue: but something's gotta give. This is idiotic.
Do both sides just lack the stones or what?
I don't know a lot about this but it seems like enough is enough. Is Hamas not a terrorist organization? Why haven't they been crushed yet?
You obviously don't understand what a holocaust camp was.
There were two types … death camps and "ordinary" camps.
In the death camps, such as Auschwitz II and Sobibor, a thousand or so Jews (or occasionally Gypsies) would arrive by train, hundreds of miles from their homes, and would within an hour or so be taken into "shower-rooms" where they would be killed by gas.
In the "ordinary" camps, Jews and others would be gradually worked to death.
Look it up on the internet, or in books … you'll see that there's no comparison between the holocaust and Gaza at all.
Germany's aim was to exterminate the Jews (and the inter-marrying tribes of Gypsies).
Israel's aim is to live at peace with its Arab neighbours.
War isn't supposed to be fair … it isn't a sport, like boxing, where you don't fight someone who's much smaller than you.
In war, if you have overwhelming force, then you're perfectly entitled to start using it, and the other side, if it's really interested in peace, will stop.
War is an unfortunate means of protecting your legal rights … in this case, Israelis' right to live.
Hamas has for many months been killing as many Israeli civilians as it can … under international law, that is undoubtedly an act of war.
Israel, under international law, is entitled to retaliate, first by economic sanctions, and then militarily.
Israel's reluctance is clear from the long time that it has waited before military retaliation.
Hamas had killed a grand total of exactly zero Israelis in the months preceding this attack whilst Israel has killed dozens of Palestinians in the same time frame. But eh, Palestinians are all terrorists so that's okay right?
Meanwhile the war warmongering, evil witch, Tzipi Livni, who recently suggested all Arabs living in Israel should be removed is really a peace loving humanitarian I suppose.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7779087.stm Then again she is by no means the only leading politician in Israel to promote a little ethnic cleansing but it seems such policies are only illegal if pursued by non-zionists.
Oh mine.... I have been away from this forum for 6 months due to study commitments... but it seems that nothing has changed... we are still arguing whether Israel/Palestine's actions are legit or not.
It amazes, as well as saddens me that both sides are still playing the same only game which perpetuate the situation despite that it is obviously unworkable.
Recently, we had an exchange student from Israel (by the way, he is not Jewish, he is originally from Russia but studied physics in Israel) joining our department. The first thing I asked him was on the topic of "the threat of rocket attacks" and whether "he fears everyday about the possibility of an attack". I must say that I was surprised to hear his response which went somehting like:
"... it is all a bit of an exaggeration... we, in the capital city, don't get any rockets at all.. it is only the small regions of the border towns are affected...", he then added,
"... seriously, I didn't feel threaten at all.. and most ppl (at least the ppl I knew).. simply go by their daily business without any concerns.... the TV stations do make a big fuss about the rockets though..."
No doubt, whether it is just border towns or the entire map of Israel is threaten by rockets, it should not in any way change our perspective of right and wrong.... whether it is just 1 or 229 civilians killed, it is equally bad. However, time and again the impression I've got from the media is that Israel is responding in the current way because "they have no other choices available, and that their entire population cannot live a normal life"
seriously? have we, the western ppl, run of new ideas already? Well, I guess the "terrorists" have and can only resort to barbaric means of retaliation, but surely, we can do better than just perpetuating the situation?
I just googled "sderot + ceasefire", and came up with http://www.jewlicious.com/2008/12/worst-rocket-attack-on-sderot-since-ceasefire/" …
As I said, Hamas has for many months been killing as many Israeli civilians as it can … under international law, that is undoubtedly an act of war.
The low number of deaths (as opposed to "mere" injuries) is not for Hamas' want of trying, and does not make it any less an act of war.
erm … "removed"? … the actual quote from Livni in that report is:
To me, that looks like exchanging land for peace.
The low number of deaths you keep referring to is, as I said previously, precisely ZERO! Whereas the Israelis have been far more successful in their attempts to kill Palestinians with dozens of 'successes' prior to Saturdays murderous assault.
I suggest you have another look then. She was referring to the 1 million Arabs living in the state of Israel, unless you are suggesting she intends handing over lumps of Israel to them. Somewhat unlikely don't you think Her qualifying remarks came AFTER there was an international outcry about her first statement.
Seems pretty unambiguous to me.
So Hamas is not very good at killing Jews. We know. But they really should know by now that if you mess with the bull too long, eventually you'll get the horns. Hamas had been poking that hornets nest with a stick for weeks before it swarmed them.
Perhaps - but either way, if it is a violation of the cease fire or just a unilateral resumption of hostilities by Hamas after it ended, it's still on Hamas.
Separate names with a comma.