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Hundreds die in Israel raid on Gaza

  1. Dec 27, 2008 #1
  2. jcsd
  3. Dec 27, 2008 #2

    Evo

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    In retaliation for unprovoked Hamas rocket attacks on Israel.

    US urges Hamas to cease rocket attacks on Israel

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081228/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_mideast
     
  4. Dec 27, 2008 #3

    berkeman

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    That would seem to be the key point:
    "Cease fire" is supposed to mean something.
     
  5. Dec 27, 2008 #4
    Hamas rockets killed 1 israeli
    Israeli rockets killed 220 and COUNTING!!!

     
  6. Dec 27, 2008 #5

    berkeman

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    So you acknowledge there was a violation of the cease fire? Why would you decide to test the cease fire?
     
  7. Dec 27, 2008 #6

    I can't even begin to comprehend how this argument could be made now, it's the same as saying that the Jews in a holocaust camp killed a Nazi officer.
     
  8. Dec 27, 2008 #7

    Evo

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    Because Hamas broke the truce. They have no one to blame but themselves in this. They know Israel is not going to sit idly by and be attacked, so they should not act surprised that Israel struck back.
     
  9. Dec 27, 2008 #8

    Vanadium 50

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    To be fair to Hamas, they did announce an end to the cease fire, so it's not exactly a violation.

    Of course, I'm sure that they were shocked...shocked...to discover that after announcing that they would go back to killing as many Israelis as they could and then resuming rocket attacks that Israel would retaliate.
     
  10. Dec 27, 2008 #9
    I don't know how you could take that angle when 200 (mostly civilians) were just slaughtered, this is by any means an unfair war, israel with it's (US Funded) war machine versus a couple of men with rockets.

    Could someone please tell me the difference between what Israel is doing now and what Germany did to the jews in WWII.
     
  11. Dec 27, 2008 #10
    This is clearly an unproportional response by the Isreal, that serves no practical purpose other than to invite the hearts and minds of every Palestinian citizen to take up arms and fight. And at the expense of 200 dead (mostly civilian), and US military aid. Genius!!!

    But if you look at what US has done in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Israeli counter offensive pales in comparison.

    I think it will take another Jesus, Gandhi, or Martin Luther King type of person to resist peacefully and start another movement over there. Otherwise this war will continue ad infinitum.
     
  12. Dec 27, 2008 #11

    Evo

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    The targets were not civilian, and the civilian casualties are obviously sad, but if you wish to engage in war, what do you expect?

    Oh please, you will lose any argument that starts with such a ridiculous comparison.
     
  13. Dec 27, 2008 #12
    Could you tell me why a comparison between those two conflicts should be made?

    But let's look at the alternative. Israel does not launch military strikes. Instead, Hamas fires a rocket or two, kills an Israeli or two (and an occasional Palestinian), and then what? Should Israel sit around looking at the sky, ducking when the next Qassam is lobbed at them? This is not a matter of some isolated attack. Hamas has made it clear that it would continue violence against its neighbor without provocation.

    Hamas brought this to themselves and those around them. Fire rockets at one's neighbor for years, and call a truce, and fire again... What can you expect?
     
  14. Dec 27, 2008 #13
  15. Dec 28, 2008 #14
    L.O.L so just because Hamas is incompetant, suddenly its O.K!

    I mean, Hamas only tried to kill as many people as it could. They never actually suceeded though. How dare they attack us back!!!


    Sorry Abdelrahman, you cant have your cake and eat it too.
     
  16. Dec 28, 2008 #15
    Were Israel to have fired first with minimal casualties with Hamas returning fire killing hundreds would you still object?
     
  17. Dec 28, 2008 #16

    Art

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    Just a couple of points. The 1 Israeli civilian was killed AFTER Israel launched it's attacks and Israel broke the ceasefire weeks ago first by not lifting the blockade as they had agreed to do under the ceasefire terms and then with targeted assassinations of Hamas officials. In fact for Israel the ceasefire was simply business as usual. But to take up your point. If Israel had killed 1 Palestinian civilan and Hamas responded by killing 271 Israelis I wonder how many on here would be falling over themselves to justify such a response from Palestinians?

    This has absolutely nothing to do with ceasefire violations and everything to do with the forthcoming elections in Israel with the candidates each trying to outdo each other on how tough they are.

    Israel is a terrorist state whose leaders should be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Gaza is a prison camp whose inhabitants are being slowly starved to death through Israel's blockade and yet when the victims protest or rebel they are vilified. This seems to turn logic on it's head. I find it amazing that so many on here are happy to try and justify mass murder. Many Nazis were executed after WW2 for just such actions.

    My opinion of Israel's culpability is echoed by the UN. This from Dec 10th
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7774988.stm
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2008
  18. Dec 28, 2008 #17

    Art

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    The targets were very definitely civilian. They went after the police force including dozens killed at a graduating ceremony and the chief of police.
     
  19. Dec 28, 2008 #18
    I don't understand this "war"... why are they just lobbing explosives back and forth at each other? It would seem to me that someone should just invade and occupy someone else and be done with it. Of course Hamas would lose :tongue: but something's gotta give. This is idiotic.

    Do both sides just lack the stones or what?

    I don't know a lot about this but it seems like enough is enough. Is Hamas not a terrorist organization? Why haven't they been crushed yet?
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2008
  20. Dec 28, 2008 #19

    tiny-tim

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    holocaust

    Hi Abdelrahman! :smile:

    You obviously don't understand what a holocaust camp was.

    There were two types … death camps and "ordinary" camps.

    In the death camps, such as Auschwitz II and Sobibor, a thousand or so Jews (or occasionally Gypsies) would arrive by train, hundreds of miles from their homes, and would within an hour or so be taken into "shower-rooms" where they would be killed by gas.

    In the "ordinary" camps, Jews and others would be gradually worked to death.

    Look it up on the internet, or in books … you'll see that there's no comparison between the holocaust and Gaza at all. :smile:
    Germany's aim was to exterminate the Jews (and the inter-marrying tribes of Gypsies).

    Israel's aim is to live at peace with its Arab neighbours. :smile:
    War isn't supposed to be fair … it isn't a sport, like boxing, where you don't fight someone who's much smaller than you.

    In war, if you have overwhelming force, then you're perfectly entitled to start using it, and the other side, if it's really interested in peace, will stop.

    War is an unfortunate means of protecting your legal rights … in this case, Israelis' right to live.

    Hamas has for many months been killing as many Israeli civilians as it can … under international law, that is undoubtedly an act of war.

    Israel, under international law, is entitled to retaliate, first by economic sanctions, and then militarily.

    Israel's reluctance is clear from the long time that it has waited before military retaliation.
     
  21. Dec 28, 2008 #20

    Art

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    Re: holocaust

    Hamas had killed a grand total of exactly zero Israelis in the months preceding this attack whilst Israel has killed dozens of Palestinians in the same time frame. But eh, Palestinians are all terrorists so that's okay right? :rolleyes:

    Meanwhile the war warmongering, evil witch, Tzipi Livni, who recently suggested all Arabs living in Israel should be removed is really a peace loving humanitarian I suppose.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7779087.stm Then again she is by no means the only leading politician in Israel to promote a little ethnic cleansing but it seems such policies are only illegal if pursued by non-zionists.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2008
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