Surviving Hurricane Katrina - My Story

[rachmaninoff]

This is getting frustrating. It's been four days already, where's the large military presence and rescue effort?

Superdome situation out-of-control:

He also said that during the night, when a medical evacuation helicopter tried to land at a hospital in the outlying town of Kenner, the pilot reported that 100 people were on the landing pad, and some of them had guns.

"He was frightened and would not land," Zeuschlag.

He said medics were calling him and crying for help because they were so scared of people with guns at the Superdome.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050901/ap_on_re_us/katrina_superdome_evacuation_hk1

Pentagon officials said 30,000 National Guard and active-duty troops would be deployed by this weekend in the largest domestic relief effort by the military in the nation's history.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/01/n...&en=737b69f420b8d648&ei=5094&partner=homepage

They could have done as much a week ago, before the storm hit. Where's the foresight?

 

[Astronuc]

I know that I am being terribly cynical, but where is the "well-regulated militia"?

More to the point, where is the planning?

With all the people stealing guns, why weren't the guns secured to prevent the looting?

It occurred to me that establishments which sell guns to the public have a responsibility to secure those guns so they are not stolen. In the case of an emergency, the entire stock of guns should be put in something like a secure vault, or the establishment must provide the necessary security. One cannot simply walk away and leave guns (and ammunition) for the taking!

We do need gun control, as has been demonstrated by the current situation!

 

[εllipse]

I agree with Astronuc.

One lady they were interviewing on Fox said they released the prisoners from one of the local jails just before the storm. I guess like, "we can't keep you safe, go fend for yourself." Has anyone else heard this?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The city is now being described by the Mayor and media as out of control.

Heads are going to roll on this one, and Bush is going to be one of the focal points. A highly conservative paper, The Union [a new england paper], blasted the handling of this, all the way to the top.

This thing is beyond belief! And now there is concern about the violence spreading to other cities.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Okay, here's my political comment: Just think of how many American lives could have been saved if the money poured into Iraq had been spent on securing what was already described as the worst threat facing the US.

October 2001 Drowning New Orleans; October 2001; by Mark Fischetti; 10 page(s)

THE BOXES are stacked eight feet high and line the walls of the large, windowless room. Inside them are new body bags, 10,000 in all. If a big, slow-moving hurricane crossed the Gulf of Mexico on the right track, it would drive a sea surge that would drown New Orleans under 20 feet of water. "As the water recedes," says Walter Maestri, a local emergency management director, "we expect to find a lot of dead bodies."

New Orleans is a disaster waiting to happen. The city lies below sea level, in a bowl bordered by levees that fend off Lake Pontchartrain to the north and the Mississippi River to the south and west. And because of a damning confluence of factors, the city is sinking further, putting it at increasing flood risk after even minor storms. The low-lying Mississippi Delta, which buffers the city from the gulf, is also rapidly disappearing. A year from now another 25 to 30 square miles of delta marsh-an area the size of Manhattan-will have vanished. An acre disappears every 24 minutes. Each loss gives a storm surge a clearer path to wash over the delta and pour into the bowl, trapping one million people inside and another million in surrounding communities.

Extensive evacuation would be impossible because the surging water would cut off the few escape routes. Scientists at Louisiana State University (L.S.U.), who have modeled hundreds of possible storm tracks on advanced computers, predict that more than 100,000 people could die. The body bags wouldnÆt go very far

http://www.sciamdigital.com/browse.cfm?ITEMIDCHAR=D58B96E1-60BC-4C0F-BCE2-8C9B8A05275&methodnameCHAR=&interfacenameCHAR=browse.cfm&sequencenameCHAR=itemP

We knew this was going to happen.

WE KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN!

 

[TRCSF]

WE KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN!

Actually, Bush just said there's no way they could have known the levees would break.

So there.

 

[Astronuc]

I hope Bush is using the editorial we. He may not have known, and his administration may not have known, but a lot of experts have been expressing this concern for many years.

But then Bush likes to brag that he does not read!

 

[gonpost]

There's one thing I can't help but wondering why...

Why is it that when I see the pictures of the most harshly hit areas, 90% of the people I see are black? I mean, I don't intend to be racist...it's just an observation... Everytime there are people idling, they are almost all black. Nearly no whites, no hispanics, nothing else. I'm quite sure that 90% of the population there isn't black; I was in New Orleans and the surrounding area a mere five months ago. The one trend I've detected is that they all expect something, from someone besides themselves. I hear people complaining that not enough is being done, people crying that there isn't enough help. I agree, but like I said...I just see hundreds of people standing idle...I'd be walking somewhere, or building something, or even going through remnants to find anything possibly useful. I'd at least be constructive with my time...

I know there are those with children and those who can't really do anything...but when everyone just sits there...

Perhaps it's something with the media's pictures that are falsely painting this portrait for me, though perhaps not.

Anyone have comments? or flames, as the case may become?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

In New Orleans we are seeing the poorest of the poor. And I've seen plenty of white people in other areas. Also, there is nothing to be done - the situation is beyond their control.

The psychology of extreme poverty is another discussion and is certainly not exclusive to black people.

 

[gonpost]

Poorest of the poor...the situation is beyond their control.

The psychology of extreme poverty is another discussion and is certainly not exclusive to black people.

I agree with your second part...

The thing is (this is directed at everyone), if they can move everyone away from the superdome, why don't more people leave? I KNOW that almost everyone could get out of there, whether by buses or by walking. It seems to me most people left just want to suck off of what's left...such off of the aid they're getting. They don't want to start over, too lazy to do anything. It's like they're waiting for the government to rebuild their entire city before they can live again, which won't happen...

EDIT: I just heard that the bus shipments have been nearly canceled because some morons were shooting at the rescue helicopters...yeesh.

 

[TRCSF]

I agree with your second part...

The thing is (this is directed at everyone), if they can move everyone away from the superdome, why don't more people leave? I KNOW that almost everyone could get out of there, whether by buses or by walking. It seems to me most people left just want to suck off of what's left...such off of the aid they're getting. They don't want to start over, too lazy to do anything. It's like they're waiting for the government to rebuild their entire city before they can live again, which won't happen...

EDIT: I just heard that the bus shipments have been nearly canceled because some morons were shooting at the rescue helicopters...yeesh.

Are you kidding? Tell me you're kidding.

The city is flooded, there's no where for them to go. They told people to wade for days to the Convention Center. There get there and there is nothing.

There is no food.

There is no water.

There is no sanitation.

There is no authority.

Elderly people are dying in their wheelchairs.

Babies are dying in their mother's arms.

And now you're bringing up these racist stereotypes about how black people are lazy and they're only staying there because they want the government handouts which aren't even there?

Chr*st on a pogo stick.

:yuck:

 

[hypatia]

I felt sick when Bush was talking on TV, he dosen't have a clue does he? Why are they not air lifting food and water in? The people at the convention center are in life or death need!

new orleans census 2000
Race

White 135956 28.05%
Black or African American 325947 67.25%
American Indian and Alaska Native 991 0.2%
Asian 10972 2.26%
Asian indian 1195 0.25%

For who ever asked, there are a lot of middle class black people in NO too, but also very poor.

 

[gonpost]

Thank you, that's about what I was looking for.

And sorry for my seeming so racist, guess it came across that way, my frustration is directed at humanity, as a whole.

More like disgust, but close enough.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Bush just suggested that we should not buy gas if we don't need it.

Who buys gas they don't need? Or...are they worried about hording like back in the 70's.

Fischetti, the author of the article cited, is on CNN right now. He stated that being too much for La or NO to handle, with a price tag of 14 billion dollars to secure the levees, pleas to the feds for financial help were ignored.

 

[TRCSF]

Bush just suggested that we should not buy gas if we don't need it.

Who buys gas they don't need? Or...are they worried about hording like back in the 70's.

Fischetti, the author of the article cited is on CNN right now. He stated that being too much for La or NO to handle, with a price tag of 14 billion dollars to secure the levees, pleas to the feds for financial help were ignored.

Yeah, he said it just before boarding Air Force One to get a birds eye view of the damage.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

What has been the cost of the Iraq war to date?

 

[gonpost]

http://costofwar.com/

That should answer your question...

 

[TRCSF]

What has been the cost of the Iraq war to date?

Officially it's 193 billion dollars the last time I heard.

They projected 87 billion dollars two and a half years ago, back when they were expecting Iraqis to welcome troops with flowers and kisses.

So I suspect the unofficial cost is a lot more than 193.

But hey, at least Halliburton is making a killing.

 

[gonpost]

Time to swing the other way...

Where the hell is everyone?

No help at all...I'm in Ohio currently, and the only thing I hear people say is their complaints about the damn gas prices...no consideration for those in the south. Just people worrying about the extra buck they'll pay at the pump...

My school almost always gathers donations for disasters such as this...yet there has been nothing as of yet.

The government's been quite slow on getting aid there...very slow. All Bush has to do is make a formal press statement and I'm sure he could get millions more dollars donated to the cause in the blink of an eye.

Once again, humanity never fails to disappoint me.

 

[dgoodpasture2005]

most people misplace their hate in this world... such as the iraq case... people do not like bush, so they damn the whole iraq situation... when in fact it is a humanitarian crisis in itself, and has been for the last 2000 years... every country and community in the middle
East that does not yet have freedom should be liberated... there is no reason conscious, aware, brilliant minded human beings should live under such rule and in such conditions... i believe in evolution of species... and i believe living in war torn regions for 2000 years has it's effect on the evolution of the population of the people... and we must reverse this sometime or another. So many Americans do not understand the conditions others in this world live in... and they would rathr be selfish and take care of theirselves above others. If we want to better ourselves and seal our success and survival as humanity, someone has to step up and be a leader, even if it's not always done in exactly the right way... we are human... and we do make mistakes... and mistakes are only made when someone is trying... but eventually it will take a worldwide coming together of peoples to cure our problems... not this hatred and political B... to the S. cloaking your ideas and others under a political party is not justified... speak your mind as a human being... a caring human being of the world, not just your country.

 

[TRCSF]

All Bush has to do is make a formal press statement and I'm sure he could get millions more dollars donated to the cause in the blink of an eye.
QUOTE]

Bush has made formal press statements. He's gone on to state the obvious (New Orleans is underwater and it will take time to clean up) and that not to worry, the Colonial Pipeline is working and operating at 50% capacity.

 

[TRCSF]

most people misplace their hate in this world... such as the iraq case... people do not like bush, so they damn the whole iraq situation... when in fact it is a humanitarian crisis in itself, and has been for the last 2000 years... every country and community in the middle
East that does not yet have freedom should be liberated... there is no reason conscious, aware, brilliant minded human beings should live under such rule and in such conditions... i believe in evolution of species... and i believe living in war torn regions for 2000 years has it's effect on the evolution of the population of the people... and we must reverse this sometime or another. So many Americans do not understand the conditions others in this world live in... and they would rathr be selfish and take care of theirselves above others. If we want to better ourselves and seal our success and survival as humanity, someone has to step up and be a leader, even if it's not always done in exactly the right way... we are human... and we do make mistakes... and mistakes are only made when someone is trying... but eventually it will take a worldwide coming together of peoples to cure our problems... not this hatred and political B... to the S. cloaking your ideas and others under a political party is not justified... speak your mind as a human being... a caring human being of the world, not just your country.

Ahh, Social Darwinism. Yes, I suspect that's very much the reason that New Orleans is not getting the help it needs.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The governer has seemed less than impressive. The other day when the flood waters started rising, the press was asking if the water is safe, what is under the water, could it be contaminated? She replied with surprise at the notion that the water could be unsafe "its just clean water" she said! The reporters clearly knew better.

 

[TRCSF]

The governer has seemed less than impressive. The other day when the flood waters started rising, the press was asking if the water is safe, what is under the water, could it be contaminated? She replied with surprise at the notion that the water could be unsafe "its just clean water" she said! The reporters clearly knew better.

Yes, I've not been particularly impressed with the Governor, although she has today seemed to be getting it together.

Mayor Nagin, on the other hand, seems to be really in the mix of things. He's making Guiliani look bad by comparison.

 

[gonpost]

*sigh*

I'll come back when I'm older.

I don't have time for this right now.

No, you can't know why.

Farewell.

 

[dgoodpasture2005]

social darwinism? do you have no care, love or respect in yourself to care about other human beings who do not have it as good as you do? NO is not getting help at the moment because they were given a 7 day warning to get out of their down before the nuclear bomb landed... yet they decided to stay. Now they need help, but they loot, they shoot, they rape and they kill. How can anyone send in a rescue team if theya re being shot at? This is the exact reason places like iraq had to be liberated, how can someone let places like this exist? rape, loot, manipulation, disease, murder... do you really want the military in NO? my foresight tells me it will just make the big bad media even bigger and badder, can you imagine pictures of US soldiers in gunfights with, and murdering US citizens? Would you rather we all sit around and care about our gas prices and our oil while the rest of the world goes to craps... and when they go to craps and gain power, they bring those same traits to the throne. Do you want a murderer, a rapist, and a manipulator in power of a country full of rapists, murderers, and manipulators... if you desire these things... it is precisely why the world is becoming the way it is.

 

[russ_watters]

Okay, here's my political comment: Just think of how many American lives could have been saved if the money poured into Iraq had been spent on securing what was already described as the worst threat facing the US.

Simple answer: none whatsoever. Building levees takes decades. As we discussed in the engineering forum, an engineering/economic compromise was made decades ago, which resulted in inadequate protection. No, Bush didn't do anything to change that, but then - neither did any other president. It isn't right to lay it all on Bush just because he was in the room when it happened.

I felt sick when Bush was talking on TV, he dosen't have a clue does he? Why are they not air lifting food and water in? The people at the convention center are in life or death need!

They are airlifting food and water in!

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-09-01-katrina_x.htm

A military helicopter tried to land at the convention center several times to drop off food and water. But the rushing crowd forced the choppers to back off. Troopers then tossed the supplies to the crowd from 10 feet off the ground and flew away.

Exactly how much, I don't know, but jeez - where are you guys getting your information from?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

social darwinism?

The first job of the Federal government is the security of the US. Your point is moot.

 

[TRCSF]

Simple answer: none whatsoever. QUOTE]

Nonsense.

Utter nonsense.

This disaster at New Orleans was a real threat. They knew about it.

Iraq was no threat. They had to lie about it. They knew it.

And you know it.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Simple answer: none whatsoever. Building levees takes decades. As we discussed in the engineering forum, an engineering/economic compromise was made decades ago, which resulted in inadequate protection. No, Bush didn't do anything to change that, but then - neither did any other president.

The report came out in 2001. The help was denied since. I think its pretty easy to see where Bush's priorites lie.

 

[TRCSF]

Never mind. Mistook who you were responding to.

 

[russ_watters]

The government's been quite slow on getting aid there...very slow. All Bush has to do is make a formal press statement and I'm sure he could get millions more dollars donated to the cause in the blink of an eye.

Once again, humanity never fails to disappoint me.

I don't think you understand the magnitude of the crisis or have any idea what has actually been done so far. The article linked in the previous post says FEMA is spending half a billion dollars a day on it already. And a dollar donated in Ohio doesn't magically transform into a bottle of water in New Orleans. The logistics of making that happen are daunting, to say the least.

Again, where are you guys getting your information? It seems like you are making it up as you go along!

 

[russ_watters]

The report came out in 2001. The help was denied since. I think its pretty easy to see where Bush's priorites lie.

Come right out and say it, Ivan: say that if Bush had put that extra $10 million into the levee system that it wouldn't have failed. Say 50 years of failure to build a new levee system equal to that of The Netherlands is entirely Bush's fault. Go for it. Don't beat around the bush. Stop with the backhanded, irrelevant cheap shots and come out and blame it all on Bush if you really believe it. You too, TRCSF.

Your opinions are not based on reality. They are an irrational reaction to a traumatic situatuation. Its understandable - its human nature to look for someone to blame, but that doesn't make it ok.

 

[dgoodpasture2005]

you all concentrate on Bush so harshly and intensely you are blinded to your own true emotions... i can no longer carry a conversation on these threads. Until you can grow up and stop cloaking your hate for Bush behind your true feelings of what the world has been becoming for the last 50 years, then we can communicate... my points are not moot, but your words are very harsh. I do not hide under terms such as social darwinism, i have no strings attatched, i speak my mind as a person of the world, and nothing else.

 

[cronxeh]

I say its Bush's fault - he sent the military who in turn pissed off a lot of butterflies and their wing flaps in turn caused this tsunami

Is this guy joking? Is he making fun out of it??


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