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Hypothetical War: Nazi Germany vs Imperial Japan

  1. Mar 26, 2009 #1
    Who'd win in the quest for World Domination? Assume that they are only two powers in the world.

    On a side note, it's interesting that these once 2 formidable enemies of America are today by it's side as staunch allies brothers in blood... with world class technology and that they make top cars. :!!)
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2009
  2. jcsd
  3. Mar 26, 2009 #2

    Danger

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    If you're referring to WWII standards, I'd have to side with Germany. They had some of the best engineers in the world, with magnificent weapons systems. The Japanese had somewhat more dedicated soldiers, and a lot more of them, but the technology was weaker. (Although the Zero was one hell of an aeroplane.)
     
  4. Mar 26, 2009 #3
    I agree, the best plane in the world is the Kamikaze plane... vrrrrroooom bang!

    Seriously though, even today I think Germany's technology is still slightly ahead of Japan.. take a look at their cars for example: Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, Maybach are light years ahead of Honda, Toyota, etc.
     
  5. Mar 26, 2009 #4

    Danger

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    I can't comment too much about the car thing; I'm strictly Detroit iron. (Well, my favourite girl was born in Windsor, which is on my side of the border, but we still use that terminology for her.) '72 GTX Roadrunner with a 650+hp 440. Everyday vehicle is a '76 El Camino frame-stacked on a '74 Jimmy chassis with a '76 455 Olds Rocket engine. I just can't get into the rice-rocket scene.
     
  6. Mar 26, 2009 #5
    You can try it out and find out for yourself... ;-p
    axisallies.jpg
     
  7. Mar 26, 2009 #6
    Ummm.........no, not even close.

    Anyway, Germany would have won hands down. If we would have waited 3 more months to invade they probably would have defeated the US. Their A-bomb, jet fighters, and V2 rockets were all rather close to completion.
     
  8. Mar 26, 2009 #7
    Needless to mention their death grip on the naval battles with their submarines. If Germany did not go into Russia I suspect that the world would be a sehr different place now.
     
  9. Mar 26, 2009 #8
    But if they didn't go into Russia, how would they get to the Japanese?
     
  10. Mar 26, 2009 #9
    Dig a tunnel.
     
  11. Mar 26, 2009 #10

    russ_watters

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    It isn't really a reasonable question since the two are so mismatched in capabilities that there wasn't really any chance of that kind of thing happening.

    Japan is an island country and had a massive navy and no army to speak of, so they had no capacity to invade anything of substantial landmass besides backwards China.

    Germany had the army to take a lot of land, but no navy to speak of and no possibility of crossing any body of water Japan would have cared to protect.
     
  12. Mar 26, 2009 #11
    Not really, when the allies occupied Haicherloch in 1945 they found the nuclear reactor of Werner Heisenberg in the "atom keller". That's just about it, no more. http://www.undercover-game.de/PC/contentHintergrund.swf.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2017
  13. Mar 26, 2009 #12
    It would be easy to say Nazi Germany
    their military technological edge was markedly superior to the Japanese.
    Their best piston-engined fighters would have run right through the best of the Japanese; the late-war USN fighters worked out the Jap fighters ace card, the Germans would have too.
    I've not even started on the Germans' lead in turbo-jet development.
    Land forces, well, the Germans had their own dedicated soldiers in the Waffen SS but let's not forget the Wehrmacht were a well-trained, well-equipped and well motivated army too. You could describe the lead that German armour had but it's quicker (and just as accurate) to say that Japanese armour was a joke.
    I think the Japanese could have given the Germans a bigger problem at sea but who wouldn't want a ringside seat at the Yamato vs Bismarck? The Germans were a real threat to everyone with their U-Boats and this would in turn have caused the Japanese a big problem; I doubt they would have had the capability at the time to eventually overcome the problem and this would hurt them, they NEED to ship everything in to support their war effort.
    As a lead-on from that, neither country had the natural resources to conduct a large-scale, even global war; Germany's advantage here was that resources lay within terrestrial reach (albeit in other countries) but the Japanese would not only have to find them but ship them across the Japan Sea under constant harrassment from U-Boats.
    The problem with the answer is how either side finishes the job. Either Germany is sitting in Manchuria looking across the Japan Sea or Japan is sitting on some European border looking at Germany; either way it's not easy to dismiss the fact that they've either conquered or at least upset the natives in order to do that.
    There's also the inevitable numbers game, it's hard to see how either side could sustain the awful casualties required for end-game. I'll give it to Germany, on account that a break-out would be easier in the direction of natural resources (crude oil, most likely) across land than it would be for the Japanese, across a waterway. The Germans could use strategic bombing and ring-fence the home islands with U-Boats to starve the Japanese into surrender, or whatever the Japanese decided to do, once they realised the jig was up.
     
  14. Mar 26, 2009 #13
    You'd have to specify what such a war entails as well as how you would define victory. The two countries had no way of directly confronting one another and would have had to use proxy wars or else have limited warfare in, say the Middle East. Japan had no possibility of forward naval bases beyond Suez for perhaps decades and Germany had no transport or supply capable of sustaining the Wehrmacht past the Urals or Suez again. A reasonable scenario would be that Germany develops ICBMs and nukes by the late 50s and simply annihilates Japan.
     
  15. Mar 26, 2009 #14

    Danger

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    :rofl:

    For every post after the quoted one, cudos for excellent analyses of the problem. Colin, are you a historian or just someone interested in the subject?
     
  16. Mar 26, 2009 #15
    If Germany didn't go to USSR, then the Japanese would. Remember, the Japanese defeated Soviets numerous times in the soviet-japanese wars.

    Germany would have defeated USSR if it wasn't for America and Britain carpet bombing their homeland, cutting off supplies and economics. And also because of the fierce Russian snowstorm that protected them that month of invasion. Still, Russia lost 10x more soldiers than the Germans during the battle, which just goes to show the German's efficiency.
     
  17. Mar 27, 2009 #16
    My money would be on the Germans by a landslide. The Wehrmacht was a very effective army, however it was stargicly mismanaged. Having to fight a war on two then three fronts is what killed the German armed forces in WWII.

    Look at the Battle of the Bulge in the last part of the war, if Hitler hadn't of instead on continuing the offensive and listen to his generals the allies would of had suffered a very major defeat. However because of ego, and some luck the allies were able to win that offensive, and use the momentum to finish the war.
     
  18. Mar 27, 2009 #17
    I think a major issue is who would have been on whose side? The US would have been quite difficult for Germany to attack. With Japan threatening the US interests in the Pacific and US isolationist sentiments pre-Pearl Harbour the US may have agreed to leave Germany to its devices in Europe and go straight for Japan. Roosevelt would have had trouble maintaining assistence for England if the US was at war with Japan and Japan was at war with Germany.

    Russia may have sided with Japan to keep them off their backs while they had to deal with Germany.


    Does any one know any good WWII historical or alternate history fiction? The Man in the Highcastle is the only I know of.
     
  19. Mar 27, 2009 #18

    Danger

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    Remember that the US was selling arms to Germany up until Hitler declared war on them the day after the Pearl Harbour attack.
    One of my favourite hard SF writers, James P. Hogan, produced one entitled 'The Proteus Operation'. It is frighteningly cool. The story revolves around a special ops team from California in a reality where the Nazis won. They time-travel back, with the aid of Churchill and Einstein, and do their commando ****. It doesn't go quite according to plan, which results in our current reality.
     
  20. Mar 27, 2009 #19
    If Germany won would it mean that Japan came second?
     
  21. Mar 27, 2009 #20
    Now that sounds cool.
    I remembered one other WWII book I read. It was called They Used Dark Forces by Dennis Wheatley. Very cheesy but sort of entertaining in that old pulp spy thriller sort of way.
     
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