How can I use psychology to gain power over my bully?

[photon]

Okay guys get this. So there are these two or three kids at school that seem to think they're so intimidating (they might be for some people) that like to pick on me and sometimes a friend of mine also. They're your typical bullies, ugly hair, earings, and one that always wheres a leather jacket. My friend was just telling me about how fun it is to use big words that no else knows when talking to people of this kind (he's kind of a nerd like me). So one of the dorks approaches me and my friend at lunch when we're standing outside the cafeteria. He starts picking on us, me in particular. I don't remember exactly what he said, but he came up into my face so that our foreheads were just inches apart. He just stared at me for a while, while I met his level stare without moving or blinking. Eventually, the kid gives up and starts to walk away. After he was a few feet from us, my friend snickers. "Ya," I said, "It's just the connotation minutia laughing." I knew pefectly well what the words meant, but just strung them together in an arbitrary way. The kid turns around and says, "what did you call me?" "Just something about the connotation minutia laughing," I said. "You think that's funny?" he replies. "Mildly," I retorted. So then the kid gives up again and walks away.

I can tell that I'm really getting inside of this guy's head. All it should take is a little bit of this slow mental torture for a few weeks, then maybe I can get him to cry. I was thinking maybe I could embarass him by walking up to him in a crowd of his friends, then just hold his hand and stand there. I know that revenge is not a good thing, but think of it as that I'm being like Socrates, and showing him the light.

Anybody have anymore good ideas?

 

[chroot]

http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

- Warren

 

[RageSk8]

Yeah, that is real mature... Not to mention eventually the kid will kick your ass.

Chroot,
Pathetic link. Plenty of smart kids are popular. The kids who are smart and not popular are not popular simply because they don't fit it, they are not as good looking, athletic, and confident as popular kids. Being popular really doesn't take much work, if you fit the mold. I am not defending the hierarchy of high school, just making a point. Oh, and just because someone knows big words gets good grades doesn't mean that they are smart.

There is the other side of the story that often occurs but rarely gets talked about: The kid who isn't considered smart because he/she is popular. The ditzy girl who is ditzy by nature but actually pretty bright. I had a few friends that talked like valley girls and were as hot as valley girls should be. Despite being intelligent, the nerds in the class would dismiss what they said in class even when what they said was far more insightful than any of them could think up. Most popular kids are actually really nice people (there are some jackasses of course). They don't exclude people - they have been segregated from others as much as anyone else.

 

[photon]

haven't finished the article yet but what I've read so far doesn't seem to apply to me.
I am definately not popular, but almost everyone that knows me at school seems to like me for humor, brains, and well, I guess the cynicism may have some part in it. But the people that don't know me and strut around school in the football jersies, they're another story.
I personally don't find any of these people intimidating in any way.
When I say nerds, I am referring to the group that seems to take knowledge and wisdom over popularity and socializing with other people. Personally, I don't want to be popular at all.

But back to buisiness. What are some more things I could use to get into this guys head?

 

[photon]

Yeah Ragesk8, you're right. But for me, a black eye is the proof that I can control an oaf's mind through words. Besides, I'm trying to find a way that I can make this kid feel like the pile of scum he is. If possible, without injuries. I wouldn't even fight back if he came at me, not at school at least. Perfect control and calm will eventually drive him nuts.
Seriously guys, got any good ideas?
Im really fond of the one about walking up to him and holding his hand. That would be SO embarassing for him.

 

[enigma]

Originally posted by photon
ugly hair, earings, and one that always wears a leather jacket.

Hey man! I resemble that remark!

No fooling...

 

[Gale]

Well apparently I'm not a nerd, much as I've tried convincing people that i am. Apparently I'm too hot and too cool to be one... Sometimes i get categorized like ragesk8 said. It really sucks. Sometimes no matter what i say or do people will still think of me as just stupid. Its really frustrating

Since I'm friends with people from all over the social ladder, i'd say its not too fair to pick on anyone stuck on any rungs of it. Though, he did start on you first... so really he's asking for it. I suppose that embarassing him would be best... But i don't know. I'm a fan of sitting down and talking through problems, working things outm coming to agreements and compromises... but i don't know how well that'd work in your case

 

[hypnagogue]

Originally posted by RageSk8
Chroot,
Pathetic link. Plenty of smart kids are popular. The kids who are smart and not popular are not popular simply because they don't fit it, they are not as good looking, athletic, and confident as popular kids. Being popular really doesn't take much work, if you fit the mold. I am not defending the hierarchy of high school, just making a point. Oh, and just because someone knows big words gets good grades doesn't mean that they are smart.

I think the article is great. The point you make here is addressed by the author in the article, and then again in the followup:

Many people have written to me about Why Nerds are Unpopular, and many more seem to be posting about it on various Web sites. Here are answers to some of the points they've raised.

...

I was smart but I wasn't a nerd in school.

Smart kids don't necessarily turn into nerds. If you're good looking, a natural athlete, or the sibling of a popular kid, you'll get a lot of popularity points for free.

I also think girls are less likely to become nerds than boys of equal intelligence, possibly because they're more sensitive to social pressures. In my school, at least, girls made more of an effort to conform than boys.

 

[chroot]

Originally posted by Gale17
Well apparently I'm not a nerd, much as I've tried convincing people that i am.

Don't worry, you'll always be a nerd to us on physicsforums.

- Warren

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by photon
haven't finished the article yet but what I've read so far doesn't seem to apply to me.
I am definately not popular, but almost everyone that knows me at school seems to like me for humor, brains, and well, I guess the cynicism may have some part in it. But the people that don't know me and strut around school in the football jersies, they're another story.
I personally don't find any of these people intimidating in any way.
When I say nerds, I am referring to the group that seems to take knowledge and wisdom over popularity and socializing with other people. Personally, I don't want to be popular at all.

But back to buisiness. What are some more things I could use to get into this guys head?

You are probably more popular than you know...

 

[chroot]

Originally posted by photon
What are some more things I could use to get into this guys head?

A tack hammer?

- Warren

 

[Zantra]

CHROOT, I found that article to be insightful, and an a generally accurate description of high school hierachacal structure. I'm SURE there are exceptions. There are ALWAYS exceptions. But generally this is how things are perceived in high school. Those who DON'T have that picture, are oblivous, and probably part of the "popular" cliques.

Photon, more power to ya. As far as getting your butt kicked. Start wearing a trenchcoat. I bet he never messes with you again. Apparently you people are not getting the message that columbine highlighted. Teenaged kids under constant pressure can snap. Ahh well, but hey, some people like playing with fire *shrug*


I would also recommend enrolling in karate. I remember these 2 kids back in high school who kept messing with this one girl. They kept at it and kept at it, and one day they came after her physically. They ended up in the hospital with several broken bones. They didn't realize she was a blackbelt.

Mess with the bull you get the horns.

 

[chroot]

Originally posted by Zantra
CHROOT, I found that article to be insightful, and an a generally accurate description of high school hierachacal structure.

Yeah, I liked it. It was long (and could easily have been condensed, I think), but it definitely was an uncanny description of what my school was like, also.

- Warren

 

[Njorl]

I found that article Chroot cited descriptive of my junior high, but not high school. My high school was an academically oriented all-boys school. When sex is at stake, everyone gets nastier. Something I discovered was that the most intellectually gifted students also tended to be better athletes and more popular. I believe that at mixed sex scools, some athletes don't risk their popularity by stressing schoolwork, or possibly, popularity interferes with schoolwork.

Njorl

 

[Gale]

that's a really really good point njorl. Sex and popularity really coincide. haha... maybe that's why I'm no good at being an unpopular geek, I'm too much a sex feind.. ah well..

But i think another thing just about those sort of social groupings in general is just that people, especially in high school when things are crazy enough as is, want to feel that sense of belonging. I don't belong to any group really, and that always made things slightly awkward if i thought about it too much. We all really want to belong, so we act certain ways to stay in our little groups.

I think as photons issue- i'd just make sure he knew that your a smart kid and you've got balls. If he still bothers with you than he's stupid and deserves whatever you may do. But most people lay off if they think you'll get back at them. I like zantra's trench idea though... and when he picks on just stick your hands in your pockets as if somethings there, then look all upset, and like your talking yourself down. Then leave. He'll get scarred... i knew a kid who did stuff like that... always freaked people out.

 

[photon]

We all really want to belong, so we act certain ways to stay in our little groups.

I would say I belong to the generic group. I have about 2 friends that I talk to sometimes, but don't stand in those ridiculous little circles that people stand in. I've been trying to come up with the solution to the question of why they stand in circles . I think its gravitational pull. Sometime, I want to just walk into a circle of skaters, then just join in on their conversation about breaking rocks on your head. After they see what's going on, I can just walk away saying, "gotta go guys, or I'll be late for Anger Management" I like doing those little things that make people look at me, then look away looking all confused.

and when he picks on just stick your hands in your pockets as if somethings there, then look all upset, and like your talking yourself down. Then leave. He'll get scarred... i knew a kid who did stuff like that... always freaked people out.

Now that's funny. Maybe I'll try that one, if I can keep from laughing.

 

[nix]

Most popular kids are actually really nice people (there are some jackasses of course).

A lot of my friends are what you'd probably consider to be popular and they are really nice...and i know tons of people who are popular and smart! And in both the popular kids and unpopular kids, there are jackasses...although the popular jackasses seem to pick on people more than the unpopular jackasses...hmmm
Anyways, i think going up to the guy and holding his hand is hilarious..but i don't think he would just stand there and let you do it...if you are going to do it, you should probably be ready for a fight[b(]
The trenchcoat idea is great too...he probably would stop bugging you for awhile..
My personal suggestion: do what you did before, if comes to bug you again, make up nonsense sentences that sound smart and pretend that your talking about the guy..

 

[Mattius_]

Boy, i have a lot to say on the subject... The school i go to, i don't fit in at all; i don't hang out with anyone, i pretty much go to school, speak a few words each day, and leave. I like to impress teachers but that is it.

I don't wear any particular clothing, i just go to goodwill and buy whatever is cheap. I don't wear t-shirts of bands with clever names, and i don't wear shirts that affiliate me with any particular sports team or brand.

My best friend goes to another school, is rich, and was popular until he became ill. I am close to his circle of popular friends, who are very nice people, but i never really have had a circle of friends that i consistanly hang out with.

I go to play video games with 25 year old pot addicts with no jobs twice a weak
I go and hang out with my best friend in his 2 million dollar house
I jam weekly in a band where we have two acoustic guitars, a drummer, and me, the harmonica. We play DMB and John Mayor stuff.
I play chess with the nerds
I am in forensics, which is an competitive speech and acting group full of goths
I run x-country with a pretty socially diverse, but accepting group
I spend a good amount of time talking to the very socially odd in our school, the kind who sit alone at lunch and read the bible.

From this very broad experience, i can say that everyone of these types of people are generally friendly and good hearted. I would say that out of all these groups, the most critical of others would be the nerds. They tend to be very spite-filled from middle school, where they got the short end of the stick socially. It is tragic that they are so bitter, but that is the way life is sometimes.

Anyways, I would just like to say that no matter what the reason, don't hit someone where it hurts, under any circumstances. Photon, don't play games with this guy, he is a victim of society, it is best that you forgive him for his mistakes, and try to forgive yourself for yours. Look at everyone with fairness, don't generalize; i had a friend a couple weeks ago blow his brains out because he was on too many drugs. I am sure people at times generalized him as a worthless druggy, but its very different than that. try to understand that.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

If you do continue to verbaly provoke him, and you do not try Karate school, (as you probably should) at least be prepared to duck, works quite well to avoid being the target, if it moves.

 

[einsteinian77]

personally, i think the best way to make him stop is to beat him at his own game. In other words, when he does something antagonizing towards you just to it back to him but in a more clever way. That way you can make more people laugh at him instead of laughing at you.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by einsteinian77
personally, i think the best way to make him stop is to beat him at his own game. In other words, when he does something antagonizing towards you just to it back to him but in a more clever way. That way you can make more people laugh at him instead of laughing at you.

But aren't you then becoming him, just better at it??...is that really the goal??

 

[Monique]

My 0.02, you trying to get back at him soo bad actually lowers you to the same level as him.

Just wonder for a second, why do you think he is picking on other people? Because he is feeling insecure about himself and thus feels the need to create situations in which he is in control.

The raincoat-pretend-to-grab-something-in-the-pocket-thing, might have very serious consequences. He most probably will go home, look up a knife himself and really show you how it is done.

If you are really that smart, be the better one in the situation and just ignore the guy completely, or say something like 'I guess he is trying to get my attention' to a friend standing nearby.

 

[Monique]

I actually used to make fun (not bullying) at a person in high school, low grade stuff, she was kinda an odd person, always wearing self-made woolen sweaters and knitted stuff. We used to call her goat-woolen-sock, hehe. The point is that she always used to come up to us and make conversation, finally I ended sitting next to her in class and we ended up as friends.

Would her becoming a bully have helped the situation or have escalated it?

 

[einsteinian77]

All I'm saying is that once the bully sees that your a lot more tougher than he thought you were he will probably respect you more.

 

[Monique]

He'll respect you as a bully and will feel intimidated, that is something else than respecting someone as a friend.

 

[RageSk8]

I would say that out of all these groups, the most critical of others would be the nerds.

I noticed this as well in high school. When my friends or I would even try to strike up a friendly conversation with a "nerd" we would often times be blown off. We were generalized into a specific cliche just because most of us were not top students (some of us were), we would party, we dressed a certain way, etc... I felt a lot of animosity in high school from people a barely knew for now apparent reason, and this animosity seemed to build as I got a reputation with teachers as being bright. I remember being in English class and commenting on its blatant use of existentialism in its analysis - one kid (who, by all accounts, was a nerd) tried to challenge me for no reason, "how do you know it is about existentialism?". Needless to say the teacher agreed with me, which seemed to make the kid mad. Instances like this happened all the time in my calculus and biology classes. The worst was my philosophy class (I use the term loosely) - I would overhear people complaining about my conversations with the teacher all the time because they went beyond the required curriculum.

 

[einsteinian77]

Monique, why do you think that the bully will ever respect anyone he picks on as a friend anyhow?

 

[Monique]

He doesn't, but you can make him!

 

[Njorl]

Actually, while I never saw it happen in older boys, up to about age 14 or so, boys will bond through fighting each other. It is very strange. It might have to do with respect or something, I'm not sure. I know this because I did quite a lot of it. After age 14, there is so much potential for harm that I think any bonding from fighting is out of the question.

Njorl

 

[Chemicalsuperfreak]

Don't take any guff from these ****ing swine.

Bullies are cowards and only pick on people to intimidate him. So what should you do? Get up in his grill and intimidate him back, call him out for the punk ass ***** that he is. Even if he's bigger than you. There's really very little chance of violence, and even if there is you'd only likely thing you'd wind up with is a cut lip, and that's a lot better being bullied all the time. And that's the other thing, if you stand up for yourself you're not going to be picked on again and your popularity is going to shoot through the roof. But mainly you should stand up for yourself, bullying is a form of abuse, and you don't have to take it.

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by Chemicalsuperfreak
But mainly you should stand up for yourself, bullying is a form of abuse, and you don't have to take it.

Yeah, ofcourse agree very much with this! Just think twice about the way you do it in

Here comes another Monique story hehe

In college I had this professor who used to bully me. Can you believe it?? It is true, I swear it! I don't know WHAT I did wrong with this man.. he was the chemistry lab instructor. I was my high school chemistry teachers' favorite so I was quite shocked by the treatment Lots of testing, fooling, humiliation and even talking down in front of a group of first year student who thought it was quite funny. I wish I hadn't taken all that, but still I say to go easy with your revenge..

 

[Njorl]

Originally posted by Monique

In college I had this professor who used to bully me. Can you believe it?? It is true, I swear it! I don't know WHAT I did wrong with this man.. he was the chemistry lab instructor. I was my high school chemistry teachers' favorite so I was quite shocked by the treatment Lots of testing, fooling, humiliation and even talking down in front of a group of first year student who thought it was quite funny. I wish I hadn't taken all that, but still I say to go easy with your revenge.. [/B]

My high school physics teacher did the same thing to me and another guy in the class. I found out a few months into it that he thought I had a real aptitude for the subject, but I was wasting it. I suppose some teachers think this is a good method. Frankly, just taking me aside and telling me that I was wasting my aptitude would have worked to, and months sooner to boot.

Njorl

 

[Monique]

Well, I hope that was meant in such a way, it was pretty destructive in my opinion..

I rather look back to my high school teacher who often told he expected 100% passing grades from me, and had a gift waiting for the people who would pass their final examination and overall mark (big one) with 90% and that he had 6 people in mind who were capable in doing it (without giving names).. boosting self confidence,

..rather than looking back at the person who made me feel insecure about the way I was performing my experiments..

*edit* that professor used to blatently ignore my greeting when passing me by in a deserted hallway.. part of the method? ;P

So yeah, things like this are pretty arbitrary and I wouldn't pay much attention to the ones who don't show respect, rather show them how stuff is really done!

 

[Andy]

£10 on the bullie kicking his ass!

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by einsteinian77
All I'm saying is that once the bully sees that your a lot more tougher than he thought you were he will probably respect you more.

Humm, if a bully wants to know just how tough you are, they will test it, physically, I hear...Then they will know whether, or not, to respect you, or, they will learn (simply) to leave you alone because you leave them alone. (as Monique said)