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I are hero!

  1. Aug 27, 2004 #1

    GENIERE

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  2. jcsd
  3. Aug 27, 2004 #2
    Uh-oh! I am starting to get the idea that the Swift Boat Veterans are mounting a counter-attack.

    Kerry has some explaining to do over the next two months. There are simply too many people who discount his record.

     
  4. Aug 27, 2004 #3

    amp

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    No John just a few. There are more that support Kerry's side at least so far. And the record still supports Kerry.
     
  5. Aug 27, 2004 #4

    kat

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    I'm beginning to question your mathematical ability... Over 250 Swift Boat Vets and still counting...Most of Kerry's chain of command...17 out of 23 officers who served with Kerry...you have swift boat vets who have had experience..day to day experience with Kerry more then 60 of these Vet's have been awarded purple hearts, who have given eyewitness accounts and even who have been in the same boat as Kerry (which is you're sides claim to relevancy not theirs, as they are aware of how Swift Boats operated). I think your side is being a little dishonest in making this claim.
     
  6. Aug 27, 2004 #5
    Including one Rear Admiral who was not even part of the Swift Boat campaign.
     
  7. Aug 27, 2004 #6

    amp

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    NY Times 8/27/04 Op-Ed - Hienman (I misspelled the name I think).
    as for being on the same boat as Kerry, Kat that can be said without them going on missions with him. All the men who were on his boat as far as I know, who went on missions with him refute swift boat vets.
     
  8. Aug 27, 2004 #7

    Ivan Seeking

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    Well, Bush is now playing his little band of angry men for all its worth. The truth of this that these people feel that they were betrayed by Kerry. His outspoken stance against the war, followed by his testimony in front of Congress made enemies for life. One of these guys was even the attack dog used on Kerry by Nixon for crying out loud!!! Then as now, the attack was bogus and un-American. That happens to men like Kerry who stand up for what's right; you make enemies. Bitterness drives this worn out clan of Swift betrayers; bitterness for the perceived betrayal by Kerry. That, and Texas Republican oil money.

    Today Bush announced that he believes that Kerry did not lie and he should be proud of his record. So we see the typical Bush style tactic. First, perpetuate the lie, then pretend to be the nice guy rising above the frey. This will backfire on Bush. He has seen his short term gain, and he thinks he got away with it, but people don't like sneaky liars, which is rightly how this will reflect on the Bush and his campaign before November.

    One of your oh so loyal Swift Boat vets is in hot water in Portland after admitting that he really didn't know what Kerry did in Vietnam. In fact he only repeated what he was told by others. So now we can easily see a proof of the truth of this situation. The swift boat vets are lying. By their actions they dishonor themselves, the political process, and our country.

    Also, I believe Njorl already proved that none of these men actually served with Kerry. The men who really do know Kerry stand behind him as a genuine war hero.

    One final comment. We have a new political group in Portland today: The Oregon Republicans for Kerry. This group includes many prominent Republicans from the NW.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2004
  9. Aug 27, 2004 #8

    Ivan Seeking

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    Oh yes, here is why I'm now sure about Kerry's claims in all of this. There was none dirtier than Nixon. Nixon tried and failed to take Kerry down when he spoke out and testified to Congress. Nixon tried his best while at this height of power. If something was there, Nixon would have found it.

    The truth: Kerry is a war hero.

    Bush's people tried to disgrace a genuine hero in order to win the weasel his hole.
     
  10. Aug 27, 2004 #9
    That's all fine, Ivan, but you never addressed the Admiral's comments that were linked. Is he lying, too?
     
  11. Aug 27, 2004 #10

    Ivan Seeking

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    He wasn't there. He is just another angry man with a 30 year old chip on his shoulder. You need to understand how this kind of stuff festers with time. People sometimes grow old and bitter.
     
  12. Aug 27, 2004 #11
    The Rear Admiral wasn't there?

    Now you are claiming a Rear Admiral is old and bitter (without even knowing him). And you say the Bush team stoops low.
     
  13. Aug 27, 2004 #12

    kat

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    erm, it was a training mission...kerry was not the officer in charge..Schacte's call sign was Batman. Kerry's was Robin....They were in THE boat together...it was a Boston Whaler..smaller then the swift boats...no enemy fire according to the Officer in charge..who is now a Rear Admiral... Kerry injured himself..accidently...you know..self inlficted..asked to be awarded...was turned down...applied again for an award..this time circumnavigating the OIC..ew Kerry's a sneaky dirty rat..


    Then we just gotta come to the conclusion that you just don't know what you're talking about.. Steve Gardner does not refute the Swift Vets and he was Kerry's gunner mate on the PC-44.
    As for Kerry's "Band of Brothers" it consists of:
    Jim Rassmann - US Army, Green Beret, served one documentable day with Kerry, not a crewmate

    The Reverend David Alston - may have been a crewmate for one week - not yet verified

    Skip Barker- OinC of PCF 31 - was not a crewmate

    Steve Hatch- PCF 44 crewmate (would have no knowledge of the medals)

    Jim McDevitt - US Marine, met Kerry in 1972 while recuperating in the hospital - not a crewmate

    Mike Medeiros - PCF 94 crewmate

    Pat Runyon - spent one night on the "Boston Whaler" with Kerry, not a crewmate

    Wade Sanders - OinC of PCF 98, not a crewmate ( did not witness any of Kerry's medal incidents)

    Del Sandusky- PCF 94 crewmate

    Fred Short- PCF 94 crewmate

    Gene Thorson- PCF 94 crewmate

    Jim Wasser - PCF 44 crewmate (would have no knowledge of the medals)

    Drew Whitlow- PCF 44 crewmate (would have no knowledge of the medals)

    Bill Zaladonis - PCF 44 crewmate (would have no knowledge of the medals)

    So, of the 14 men that Kerry claimed were Swift boat crewmates, only eight were. Two commanded other swifts. One may have served with him for a week. Another served with him for about 3 hours. One spent a day with him. And one didn't meet him until 1972.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2004
  14. Aug 27, 2004 #13

    GENIERE

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    The entire US Navy Is old, embittered...


    "But according to a U.S. Navy spokesman, "Kerry's record is incorrect. The Navy has never issued a 'combat V' to anyone for a Silver Star."
     
  15. Aug 27, 2004 #14
    11 of the 12 men who served with Kerry on his swift boat are on his side. But, of course, that won't matter to any of you because you really don't care about his service. You just want to see him go down because you don't like his politics.
     
  16. Aug 27, 2004 #15
    Sounds like those that criticized Bush over the AWOL incident.

    So Dan, do you think the Admiral is lying? You should have some opinion of his statements.
     
  17. Aug 27, 2004 #16

    Hurkyl

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    Look at it from my POV, who knows little about the incident.

    Kat has just given a specific list of people, apparently those claimed to have served on the boat with Kerry, and explained that several of them could not have done so.

    Then I see this response.


    Now, I won't just take Kat's word for it, but your quote was disingenious at best, and tends to support the hypothesis that the counterargument is nonexistant.
     
  18. Aug 27, 2004 #17

    Ivan Seeking

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    I know he wasn't on the river with Kerry when Kerry was under fire.

    When Bush now says he believes Kerry's story, and Kerry should be proud of his war record, isn't he calling this guy a liar? Maybe you had better check with GWB to find out why he no longer believes the Swift Boat Veterans.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2004
  19. Aug 27, 2004 #18

    Ivan Seeking

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    Yes we see a heck of a lot of alleged facts with nothing to back them up.

    Edit: Pretty soon the right will be aguing that Bush's tour of duty was just as dangerous as Kerry's. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

    How disgraceful that Bush allowed or financed this effort. Kerry was in Vietnam!!! That fact alone demands that his life was in extreme jeapordy...or does someone have a link that proves this wrong as well. Kerry chose to serve - to really serve his country - and Bush didn't. Sure, let's spend more time trying to dishonor this hero Republicans. This only proves how desparately we need Kerry, an honorable man, to win.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2004
  20. Aug 27, 2004 #19

    kat

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    Can you cut the hyperbole..it's really making me want to puke.
     
  21. Aug 28, 2004 #20
    Perhaps he was just being polite.
     
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