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I can tell you want lies ahead

  1. Feb 1, 2004 #1
    there are 3 paths...the short the medium and the long.

    the short path is if we end up destroying ourselfs....Humanity will end.

    the medium path....if we save ourselfs from ourselfs, but cannot travel or do not travel out of our solar system, we will be destroyed when our sun dies (when it expands, we could probably tereform one of jupitors moons, or something which would give use a few more million years)

    the long path....we discover a way to travel across the universe with in a person's life time, and we would, baring any bad encounters with other inteligent species, exist until the end of the universe.

    either way, humanity is doomed.
  2. jcsd
  3. Feb 1, 2004 #2
    In the medium term we will be destroyed by some external cosmic event or get hit by a comet or asteroid. You are wrong about the sun destroying us though. It will not go red giant for another 5 billion years if we leave it alone which means that basically humanity or superhumanity will have shifted the Earth out of its orbit and set it round another star long before red giant phase occurs. The earth means too much to us. We arent going to let it die once we make it to Type 2.

    Also - There is no - end of the Universe - there is only the horizon beyond which we will never be able to cross unless we can create wormholes which may not even be physically possible.
  4. Feb 2, 2004 #3
    I personally believe that we will never make it to a Type Two Civilization. Mankind's stupidity and ignorance is so great that we may not even last until the year 3000. Because of all the nuclear weapons we possess, we will end up destrying ourselves soon. No matter what, there will always be at least one person who has power and desires to abuse it.
  5. Feb 2, 2004 #4
    I am making certain assumptions.....

    hence the 3 tracks. there is a medium track, what you describe is what is necessary for us to move to the long track.

    as for the universe ending...yes it will end....they have calculated that the universe will continue to expand for ever du to the level of dark energy that pervades the universe acting an an anti-gravity force.

    now...if you know anything about thermodynamics, if we expand for ever, eventually we will not be able to create the energy we need and just die. in fact, I think Dr. Kaku discuses this fate in one of his books, it is called the cold death.
  6. Feb 12, 2004 #5
    You forgot number 4

    We transcend somehow and find a method of existing for eternity, though this seems impossible to a cave man, powerred flight is incomprehensible. Though this is unlikely due to the reasons described by Shinmyoken.
  7. Feb 15, 2004 #6
    Immortality is one thing but your not taking into account his point of thermodynamics. In an everexpanding universe there would eventually be no room even for an immortal being as the energy would eventually disapate is what i think he was getting at. although perhaps not to that context.

    The end still would be innevitable unless perhaps the multi-dimensional theries are correct and we find some means to move to them.

  8. Feb 15, 2004 #7
    "In an everexpanding universe there would eventually be no room even for an immortal being as the energy would eventually disapate is what i think he was getting at. although perhaps not to that context."

    Really... Surely you can be more imaginative than that. Obviously it is unlikely that we somehow 'transcend' and find a way to become immortal, but I can already think of ways that this could happen.

    Consider a red dwarf slowly cooling off for all eternity. And imagine that the processes of heat transfer through the matter in the red dwarf somehow react to one another and generate the laws of a universe within the red dwarf. As if the transfer of heat from one part of the red dwarf to another are actually mathematical equations being carried out in the same way that laws in this universe are being carried out. Now it isn't hard to comprehened the end of this red dwarf universe, but the universe is infinitely precise, things can happen at an infinitely small level and for a sentient being from living in this universe within a red dwarf, 100 billion years in this universe can seem like a second in the red dwarf universe and as it cools and cools 1000 billions years can seem like the next second and 10000 billion years can seem like the next second etc etc.. Of course sentient life may not occur in each of these theoretical universes within the mechanics of another universe, but this may occur.

    Obviously this idea is flawed, but my point is, it is still possible as we may be too stupid to comprehend something. In fact we are too stupid to comprehend certain things. Imagine that cavemen incapable of comprehending powerred flight, he can't even comprehend agriculture or the wheel. We are the same species as that caveman, surely we cannot comprehend something.

    I believe that #4 may occur, though it is lunacy to think it will occur, it is not impossible.
  9. Feb 20, 2004 #8


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    Wow, "doomed" = millions or billions of years of survival. Quite the pessimistic view. :wink:

    True, but it will heat up to uncomfortable (possibly unliveable) levels in about 500 million years.

    Possibly...or terraforming other planets...or adapting to other planets.

    As mentioned, there is the heat death of the universe where basically all matter falls apart to a cold soup of rarely interacting fundamental particles.
  10. Feb 20, 2004 #9


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    Hey, maybe we will figure out how to create whole new universes to travel to.
  11. Feb 24, 2004 #10

    Even if nuclear war were to happen, not all humans would die. Some would live, and rebuild. Sure it would be a tremendous set back, but hopefully one we would learn from.

    I think the key to a type 2 civilization is The Hedonistic Imperative.
  12. Mar 15, 2004 #11
    this wont fit but im still curious..

    you are your brain and wat you percieve is all in your mind.why do you feel the world will end,or why worry about protecting the world from 'a nuclear pitfall'.
  13. Apr 11, 2004 #12
    we can already travel in time, in space


    The technology is there, but it is used by the military for advanced weapon, surveillance, and control systems. We can bend space, travel in time, we have gravitycrafts, we have all that we need.

    We have energy from the vacuum, we do not need the oilindustry, the energycrises is fake it just make a few people very rich and a lot of people poor. In Norway last year elderly people dyed in their homes because they couldn`afford the electrisity. This is in one of the worlds richest countries in the world. Everything is falling apart, school, healthcare etc... the taxes are enormous....and the mafia takes all the money.

    we have frequency machines that heals sick cells, is no used for spreading illnesses by the military, and the industry that sells you all the pills are benefitting and increasing their power enormously, in the meantime people are suffering and dying from aids, cancer, ...you name it.


  14. Apr 11, 2004 #13


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    John Bearden is not taken seriously by anyone except cranks. For your amusement and edification, check out John Baez's Crackpot Index , and see how many points for crackpottery you can add up from Bearden's site (Nextlevel's first link) or the fan site (the second link). Start with the claim that it's all a big cover up...
  15. Apr 11, 2004 #14

    Ivan Seeking

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    5 points for each mention of "Einstien", "Hawkins" or "Feynmann".


    How about Inestine, Hockings, or Fineman
  16. Apr 19, 2004 #15
    there a some more paths that you missed.

    And it all depends upon if your definition of universe includes it being infinite or finite.

    In a infinite universe, human or human like intelligence may be a constant, and possibly the creative and organising princaple itself.


  17. Apr 25, 2004 #16
    The Human Genome project somehow proved that within the last fifty thousand years, the number of humans on the planet dropped to ~two thousand five hundred. Something happend that nearly destroyed us. I maintain, that when our civilization is summed up, should we persist, in any form but slaves to some mega civilization that absorbs us; our chief identifier will be our destructiveness and megalomaniacal insufferability. We are the embodiment of evil at this point. As a species we are absolutely psychotic, if you took us as a whole being, and you broke it down statistically, adding up our potential for wrong doing (weapons amounts), percentage of children starving, percentage of hungry, numbers of displaced species, ongoing environmental destruction, ongoing potential for complete suspension of individual freedom, much less life...
    we would be like a raging murderous lunatic, and the good would be likened to the lunatic pausing in the sunlight for a moment, in any given week. There are a lot of mathematicians here, I bet a very interesting form could be created with some index of values, intersecting an index of potentials, and an index of physical inventory. We are most definitely in the process of our own obliteration.
  18. Apr 25, 2004 #17


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    We are tribal species, inherited from our primate ancestors. So it takes only a small number of evil/stupid/greedy/whatever tribal leaders to get the whole mass moving on a violent escapade.

    See, over half the US citizens still believe to this day that Saddam had a hand in 9/11 and a link to Osama bin Laden. Even though the more evidence we turn up the more it is shown that both of those statements are dead wrong. That's tribalism for you; "The Chief has spoken" is worth more than any amount of dry facts.
  19. Jul 8, 2004 #18
    I believe that Option #1 is very likely. Once a country just launched ONE nuclear missile at another country, that country will start firing back and so on... and that's the end of the world....

    But you never know, some genious might come along and make a revolution and change all our visions and way of thinking...
  20. Jul 8, 2004 #19
    It's annoying how the fate of millions of people can lie in the hands of one man. I hope there's some kind hidden organization that's filled with all responsible people and controls the world government.

    and Don't we hate propaganda?
  21. Jul 8, 2004 #20


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    If there were such a secret group, would our economy, our foreign policy, and our war be in such messes? The idiots are in charge, I'm afraid.
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