Propelling Vehicles with Light: A 15-Year-Old's Idea

In summary: Talk to your friends, they will be able to point you in the right direction, but don’t be afraid to ask them for help. And remember, you are not alone.
  • #1
Vincit
22
0
hey, I'm 15 years old, and I'm still going to high school:) But Physics has been my main subject of study for a few years now(since i was 7 to be precise) and i understand many complex things that are above my age category such as Newton's laws and vectors, projectile motions, electronic configurations and orbitals(i know that's chemistry) and i know many more things - but i had an idea, which according to Newton's Laws could work.

According to Newton's 3rd law, if a force from 1 body is exerted onto a 2nd body, the 2nd body will exert a -F, which is equal in magnitude to F, but opposite in direction. So i thought, because light is made of particles and they move very fast, couldn't you propel vehicles on pure radiation instead of having cars? According to Newton's law, if light moves away from the vehicle, the vehicle will evert a -F with the same magnitude but opposite in direction. Now, i realize that light's pressure would be very weak - but what if a reflecting surface was involved to double or multiply light's pressure? It's just an idea i had - and I'm 15 so don't go hard on me! But i think it's possible!
 
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  • #2
You can definitely use light (or any radiation) to propel a vehicle. So-called solar sails would be propelled by the radiation pressure from the Sun.

Congrats for figuring that out on your own!

- Warren
 
  • #3
i actually thought i was onto something:(
 
  • #4
I believe chroot just said you are!
 
  • #5
i guess, but i thought the idea wasn't thought of before:D

But now if there's solar sailing(which i didn't know existed) - i guess that mean's SOMEONE had to have thought of that.
 
  • #6
The pressure of light was discovered by Lebedev in 1900. In school lab you may find a vacuum bulb with rotating thing when lighted by Sun. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_pressure. You should be content with you - you made the right reasoning.
 
  • #7
i attend a public school, and it's very frustrating. I'm in the top set for science - but I'm far ahead of the class and i already know everything teach us. It's just frustrating and i need some suggestions as to what i can do. I do A Level physics at my house- and i do not find it too complex at all.
 
  • #8
Vincit said:
i actually thought i was onto something:(

You are, coming up with creative ideas, even if they have all ready been discovered, is still a very very valuable quality to have, IMO.

i attend a public school, and it's very frustrating. I'm in the top set for science - but I'm far ahead of the class and i already know everything teach us. It's just frustrating and i need some suggestions as to what i can do. I do A Level physics at my house- and i do not find it too complex at all.

Perhaps you might want to take some time to read some books on interesting topics in physics. Or perhaps learn calculus and try to self-study the introductory college physics consisting on Newtonian mechanics and e&m
 
  • #9
Don't worry about thinking up wonderful ideas that have already been thought of before. You will keep on doing it even through graduate school!
 
  • #10
Someone give me an idea - so i can improve the world when I am older! but then it wouldn't be my idea... someone give me a base to start off with!
 
  • #12
Vincit said:
Someone give me an idea - so i can improve the world when I am older! but then it wouldn't be my idea... someone give me a base to start off with!

I was a hot shot myself when I was in high school (16 years old), I discovered the NON-Newtonian calculus at the same time as R. Katz and M. Green; among many other less important things. You’re absolutely correct, most people (almost all) are too involved in their own lives and they will only look at thing that is relevant to what they are doing directly. Your teachers will keep teaching by repeating themselves like parrots, so don’t expect much from them. Here is what you need to do
1. Go to a university library and scan all the books of the subjects of interest. Out of 20 books on the same subject one or two are usually the best ones, the rest are repetitive and good for verification and to know something that is not mentioned clearly in the others. Try to figure out how the subjects relate to each other, especially mathematic it is a vast subject with overlapping parts.
2. Learn as much as possible computer programming, it is an essential tool of science. And it will sharpen up your brain.
3. Read some engineering books, technology ties theory to practical things. It clarifies their relation and makes both more understandable.
4. Read book on philosophy and its history, philosophy of physics and philosophy of mathematics. Scan through them you do not to know every detail, you can always come back to them as you become more knowledgeable.
5. Go to your book store and buy scientific magazines like Scientific American, Scientists and the like. Buy some layman books on Physics for authors like lee Smolin, Brian Greene, Paul Davis, Roger Penrose, David Deutch , Micho Kaku and many others.( you can google ). Of course, these are only examples there are many others, and yes, for mathematics too.
6. Also scan some business books, they teach you management which will be very useful when you eventually try to create some serious project, well maybe even if it is not so serious.
I really commend you highly for your question, and I have seen many with PHDs who do not ask this question and do not know the answer either. You are welcome to ask me any more questions. You can find my email in my site www.qsa.netne.net.

Good Luck

qsa
 
  • #13
Vincit may be on his way to becoming the next Terence Tao.

It might just help to read advanced physics and mathematics books in preparation for university; once you start attending courses there the material would already be second nature.
 
  • #14
1. Go to a university library and scan all the books of subject interest
2. Go to your book store and buy scientific magazines like Scientific American
3. Read books on philosophy and its history, philosophy of physics and philosophy of mathematics
 
  • #15
Bob_for_short said:
... In school lab you may find a vacuum bulb with rotating thing when lighted by Sun...
Those are called Crookes Radiometers. But it's only a myth that they rotate from the force of light. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crookes_radiometer
According to this Wikepedia article we are in good company falling for the myth. Crooke himself, and James Maxwell of Maxwell's equations believed light pressure caused the motion. But it spins the opposite direction that light would make it spin.
 
  • #16
Vincit said:
Someone give me an idea - so i can improve the world when I am older! but then it wouldn't be my idea... someone give me a base to start off with!

1. Go to a university library and scan all the books. Out of 20 books on the same subject one or two are usually the best ones, the rest are repetitive and good for verification and to know something that is not mentioned clearly in the others. Try to figure out how the subjects relate to each other, especially mathematic it is a vast subject with overlapping parts.
2. Lear as much as possible computer programming, it is an essential tool of science. And it will sharpen up your brain.
3. Read some engineering books, technology ties theory to practical things. It clarifies their relation and makes both more understandable.
4. Read book on philosophy and its history, philosophy of physics and philosophy of mathematics. Scan through them you do not to know every detail, you can always come back to them as you become more knowledgeable.
5. Go to your book store and buy scientific magazines like Scientific American, Scientists and the like. Buy some layman books on Physics for authors like lee Smolin, Brian Greene, Paul Davis, Roger Penrose, David Deutch , Micho Kaku and many others.( you can google ). Of course, these are only examples there are many others, and yes, for mathematics too.
6. Also scan some business books, they teach you management which will be very useful when you eventually try to create some serious project, well maybe even if it is not so serious.
 
  • #17
Vincit said:
i guess, but i thought the idea wasn't thought of before:D

That's THE problem of having an idea :smile:
I've also had many brilliant ideas :cool: just to find out that others had had them too :shy:

That leaves you with a double sentiment: one is that you are quite proud of yourself ("hey, I figured this out myself!"), the other that you lost your time ("if only I had looked a bit more in the literature...").

Honestly, when you're pretty young, even if you're bright, it is already very good to have ideas that aren't outright wrong. To have *new* ideas means not only that you are good, but also that you have very good knowledge of the actual state of a field (literature knowledge). In fact, it is almost suspect to have a new idea that hasn't been thought of before. Chances are it is a bad idea (but not always). It is very difficult to have a good idea without anyone else having had it.

Finally, if you're bored stiff in high school on science subjects, that's pretty normal I'd say. Things will change when you're in university. The change in pace is something like going from a sailing boat to a jet fighter. Enjoy the time while you still have some :wink:
 
  • #18
Thanks for the suggestions and help, everyone. I'll take everything into account.


OT: What if we took Solar Sailing onto land? We would need to mulitply light's strength as light's pressure would be too weak to exert a force of enough magnitude.
 
  • #19
Vincit said:
OT: What if we took Solar Sailing onto land? We would need to mulitply light's strength as light's pressure would be too weak to exert a force of enough magnitude.

Yeah, solar sails will only work in vacuum. The wind resistance (air drag) of a large sail would totally negate the very small force due to the radiation.

- Warren
 
  • #20
even if you enclose the sails in vacuum and store the energy generated you would probably need a sail the size of chicago, that is no way to drive a car. And if you use a powerfull laser to multiply your photons and concentrate them is small area, you know what is going to happen? right
 
  • #21
I already know light is out of the question. Look at my other thread- I'm trying to find out what force COULD be used.
 
  • #22
That is a many trillions dollars question. and don't try any "perpetual motion" schemes
they are waste of time, although you do learn about conservative fields the hard way.
 
  • #23
qsa said:
That is a many trillions dollars question. and don't try any "perpetual motion" schemes
they are waste of time, although you do learn about conservative fields the hard way.

It is interesting you mention "perpetuum mobile" regarding this issue, because I myself in youth had an idea about "perpetuum mobile" using radiant pressure from a light bulb - rotating at high speed at some radius around a pole. I reasoned: Radiation recoiling force from bulb is very small - but power generated is Force x Speed, so torque power generated could theoretically be increased unlimited by increasing rotation speed. Power consumed to generate light is constant, but power delivered is proportional to speed ...

Today I of course don't believe much in this, but some people find it intriguing :cool:
 
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  • #24
Vincit said:
I already know light is out of the question. Look at my other thread- I'm trying to find out what force COULD be used.

Wind.


Dang. They already thought about it long ago :biggrin:
 
  • #25
Don't forget to get out of the books once in a while - you're going to need to work with others whatever you do in life.
 

1. How did the idea of propelling vehicles with light come about?

The idea was originally conceived by a 15-year-old student, who was inspired by the concept of solar sails used in space exploration. He realized that if light can be used to propel a spacecraft, it could also potentially be used to propel vehicles on Earth.

2. Is it possible to actually propel vehicles with light?

Yes, it is possible. The concept has been studied and tested by scientists, and it has been proven to work. However, there are still some technical challenges that need to be addressed before it can be implemented on a large scale.

3. What are the potential benefits of using light to propel vehicles?

Using light to propel vehicles has several potential benefits. It is a clean and renewable source of energy, which can help reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. It also does not produce any emissions, making it an environmentally-friendly option. Additionally, it could potentially be more cost-effective in the long run.

4. Are there any limitations to this technology?

As with any new technology, there are limitations that need to be addressed. One major limitation is the efficiency of light propulsion. Currently, it is not as efficient as traditional combustion engines, so more research and development is needed to improve its efficiency. Additionally, the technology may not be suitable for all types of vehicles, such as heavy-duty trucks or airplanes.

5. What are the next steps for this technology?

Scientists and researchers are continuing to study and develop this technology. The next steps include addressing the technical challenges and improving efficiency, as well as exploring potential applications for different types of vehicles. It will also be important to consider the infrastructure and regulations needed to support the use of light propulsion for vehicles.

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