News I hate to keep bringing it up but

I don't know about Putin giving a warning, but the concept was a matter of public knowledge. There were also specific warnings from the Philipines that terrorists had planned to hijack planes there and crash them into buildings. They also had plans to fill a light plane with explosives and fly it into the pentagon, though this involved no hijacking.

Njorl

 

My personal view is that although all the warnings did exist - what could actually be done? Before 9-11, there were no terrorists plots of note which put any country on full alert to the threat of being savagely attacked. I'm thinking that the info that some militant group was planning to bomb the WTC with planes would have had the same credentials as any other terrorist warning.

I think that there was no way to physically stopped 9-11 as such. US policy was too hated around the world meaning dozens of groups were willing to attack the USA. It was just a "coincidence" that the group behind the 9-11 attacks (whoever they may be) struck first and that was truly unfortunate.

 

It's hard to point to any one thing that could have stopped 9/11. I mean you cant just say, if Pres. Bush had looked at a memo that Dick Clark had sent him, it would have stopped 9/11. But what we know now is that there was in fact quite a bit of information reguarding a possible attack within the united states, by al-queda, possibly using planes. I think that if the Bush administration had been much more proactive in fighting terror, and had been more alert to any direct warnings (which there were in fact), that could have led to other information that had a reasonable chance of stopping 9/11.

 

I will defer to my new signature as my comment.

“Since I fought in Vietnam I have not seen an arrogance in our foreign policy like this" - John Kerry

[Luckily I never fought in VN but you get the idea]

 

Rumors involving politicians are always interesting, but I wonder how often there is really anything of substance to them.

Here, for example, is one that seems to imply that L.B.J. was responsible for ordering murder.

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/23rd_Issue/breakthru.html [Broken]

 

Ja, but I don't think that would have been a feasible option. What right did Bush have pre 9-11 to go and bomb out whoever he felt like bombing? As any other memo's containing any warnings, the fact of the matter is that you don't know for certain that the attack is going to happen. In this case it did BUT what about the other 1000's of warnings which have just come and gone like a one-hit wonder song

I think that accusing Bush of basically, leaving his citizens in their time of desperate need (ie. his going on vacation as schwarzchildradius pointed out) is nonsense. I stand by my conviction that nothing could really be done but investigate the probability rather than enact any rash judgements ie. bomb Bin Laden.

Also, (and I know this may be a little out of place but it is my opinion) as far as I'm concerned - I don't 100% blame Bin Laden for it. Maybe the investigation occurring at the moment will truly reveal the source but I will be a bit of a conspiracy theorist and say that even though the "evidence" points towards him, it was a joint affair with other organisations - both legitimate and illegitimate. BUT this is a debate for a different thread so...

 

There were a lot of little things that could have been done that might have given us a small chance at preventing the attack.

The CIA, immigration and the FBI could have communicated better. If the various low-level people were informed of plans for a big attack inside the US, activities could have changed. The CIA could have re-informed immigration of suspected terrorists who entered the US. Immigration could have made a point of tracking down many of these individuals, the FBI could have engaged in surveillance of these individuals. This alone would have discovered that several of them were taking flying lessons. Interviews with the flight instructer would have revealed that they were not interested in learning how to take off or land.

Other things would not have been possible. Even if Bush had gone on television and stated that Al Qaeda had terrorists in the US who would try to hijack planes and crash it into skyscrapers, we wouldn't want the added hassle at airports. The news all summer had been about the unacceptable delays when flying. The security was only possible after the attacks.

Njorl

 

Rumours and Lies

Posted by Janitor:
“Rumors involving politicians are always interesting, but I wonder how often there is really anything of substance to them.

Here, for example, is one that seems to imply that L.B.J. was responsible for ordering murder.”

Ah, although that story may be a rumour, I have it on good authority that LBJ was indeed instigated in a couple of murders.
A little incident named "Viet Nam".

 

I love to see 5 or 6 people sit around and tell each other how much they agree with one another

 

I thought the questioning of Condoleezza Rice was unnecessarily rude.

By the way, can you imagine the outrage that organizations like N.O.W. and the N.A.A.C.P. would have expressed over the style of questioning of Rice if she were a member of a Democrat cabinet, and it were a Republican doing the questioning in exactly the same style? "A public lynching..."

 

I've always been registered Democrat, but by no means do I vote straight-ticket. I find it hard to respect those people (and I personally know a few) who maintain a double standard when it comes to political parties. They love to wallow in the lack of scruples displayed by John Sununu, but they have no interest in discussing the lack of scruples by Jim Wright--or vice versa.

 

This is simply false. The "Kerry Amendment" to which you refer, was to cut 1.5 billion over 5 years from the NRO (National Recon. Office), not the FBI and CIA. The NRO had been hoarding black budget money to buy a fancy new building, and it pissed off Kerry. His amendment was voted down in favor of Republican backed cuts for twice as much, across the board in the intelligence agencies and bureaus. Kerry's cuts would have had no impact on counter-terrorism. The bipartisan cuts that were instead implemented did have an effect on counter-terrorism.

Senator Kerry was not an "inept nitwit", he was prophetic.

Njorl

 

One more thing. North didn't mention Bin laden. It is a myth propogated by right wing web-sites. He was convinced Abu Nidal was after him. It was just another of North's paranoid delusions, like Nicaragua having the capacity to launch an amphibious assault on the US and occupy Texas.

Njorl

 

The thing is, Clinton had the different agencies cooperating by his last years in office. When the millenium bomber was caught, FBI and CIA teams were ready to move immediately to round up his accomplices and their contacts. The State department immediately notified other countries who also moved agains targets. Many cells were scooped up whole, and many plots were prevented. They were ready and eager to do this because they knew it was important to the president, and their bosses.

What this memo shows, and Clarke's book, among many others shows, is that Bush was not in any way leading. He expected the machinery of the federal government to work without a president. He thought his only job was to appoint people.

Njorl

 

What can a president accomplish in 8 months? Look what Bush did from September 1, 2002 to April 30 2003. If that can be done in 8 months, he has no grounds to blame Clinton for anything. Bill Clinton was in office 6 weeks when the first attack on the WTC happened. He did not blame the elder Bush for it. The day you are inaugurated, you are responsible for every damn thing.

Njorl

 

Well if you won't believe me, how about Ollie himself