I just pulled a p-note out of my ATM

  • Thread starter OAQfirst
  • Start date
In summary, this note was not an authorized HM Treasury note. It was printed on an inkjet printer and probably not from an authorized HM Treasury machine.
  • #1
OAQfirst
23
3
And boy is it a piece of work. Has the gold glitter and a nearly perfect color match. It's not laser printed, so I guess the gov can't get the serial. Seriously professional. Even the paper feels right. The only things that give it away is the lack of a plate pressure indentation and no ghost image. There's no inner strip either, but the print shows a residual image of one. It fooled me when I went to the grocery store. So, I'm a bit miffed. Went to the police station and the dispatch officer did a double take. Fortunately, he said the bank is responsible for compensating me.

I thought every note from an ATM is reliable. I'm checking every last one from now on, and I don't care what machine or who hands it to me.
 
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  • #2
OAQfirst said:
And boy is it a piece of work. Has the gold glitter and a nearly perfect color match. It's not laser printed, so I guess the gov can't get the serial. Seriously professional. Even the paper feels right. The only things that give it away is the lack of a plate pressure indentation and no ghost image. There's no inner strip either, but the print shows a residual image of one. It fooled me when I went to the grocery store. So, I'm a bit miffed. Went to the police station and the dispatch officer did a double take. Fortunately, he said the bank is responsible for compensating me.

I thought every note from an ATM is reliable. I'm checking every last one from now on, and I don't care what machine or who hands it to me.

Maybe it was a legitimate bank note - a rare misprint - that may be worth hundreds of farthings?
 
  • #3
OAQfirst said:
And boy is it a piece of work. Has the gold glitter and a nearly perfect color match. It's not laser printed, so I guess the gov can't get the serial. Seriously professional. Even the paper feels right. The only things that give it away is the lack of a plate pressure indentation and no ghost image. There's no inner strip either, but the print shows a residual image of one. It fooled me when I went to the grocery store. So, I'm a bit miffed. Went to the police station and the dispatch officer did a double take. Fortunately, he said the bank is responsible for compensating me.

I thought every note from an ATM is reliable. I'm checking every last one from now on, and I don't care what machine or who hands it to me.

There was a rumour some time ago that English banks let some through knowingly.
 
  • #4
I can see with simple inspection that it came off an inkjet printer.
 
  • #5
OAQfirst said:
I can see with simple inspection that it came off an inkjet printer.

Probably not an authorized HM Treasury machine then, unless there is a secret cost reduction plan afoot.
 
  • #6
LowlyPion said:
Probably not an authorized HM Treasury machine then, unless there is a secret cost reduction plan afoot.

Is that something that should have detected this note? I want to know what I should expect from my bank. Any bank.
 
  • #7
Was this at an ATM outside the bank or at a store or something? If it were right next to the bank, I would have taken it right inside.

I mean now, what proof do you have that it came from an ATM and that you're not the one doing the counterfeiting?
 
  • #8
WarPhalange said:
Was this at an ATM outside the bank or at a store or something? If it were right next to the bank, I would have taken it right inside.

I mean now, what proof do you have that it came from an ATM and that you're not the one doing the counterfeiting?

It was an outside ATM at the bank. It's Sunday, so they're not open. I went to the police and filed a report.

Anyway, I suppose you could accuse me of being the counterfeiter, but I don't think the law will be too concerned. If there were a surge of p-notes to come, and investigators connected dots to me, then I'd of course have some explaining to do. Yet I'm not worried.

Besides, the burden of proof would be on the authorities. And I wouldn't even demand a search warrant.
 
  • #9
OAQfirst said:
Is that something that should have detected this note? I want to know what I should expect from my bank. Any bank.

I didn't mean detecting, just the printing - that they would be experimenting with ink jet printers for printing currency.

On the other hand, whatever detection is in use in the banking system there looks to have a bit of a run in its stockings. You likely would want to be vigilant. If you find more though be careful they don't begin to think you're part of it.
 
  • #10
I'm just saying, if you go to the bank and say "I got this fake bank note from your ATM" they will just say "Prove it." and that will be that. I don't see what would make them give you the money you deserve.
 
  • #11
LowlyPion said:
I didn't mean detecting, just the printing - that they would be experimenting with ink jet printers for printing currency.

On the other hand, whatever detection is in use in the banking system there looks to have a bit of a run in its stockings. You likely would want to be vigilant. If you find more though be careful they don't begin to think you're part of it.

Oh. Yeah, I'm hoping this is isolated. I'm not concerned about suspicions; any detectives or what would have my full cooperation. I hope that they can somehow nail this down.

WarPhalange said:
I'm just saying, if you go to the bank and say "I got this fake bank note from your ATM" they will just say "Prove it." and that will be that. I don't see what would make them give you the money you deserve.
I doubt they would say that. Besides, I was instructed by the dispatch officer on how to report this to the bank.
 
  • #12
WarPhalange said:
I'm just saying, if you go to the bank and say "I got this fake bank note from your ATM" they will just say "Prove it." and that will be that. I don't see what would make them give you the money you deserve.

This isn't the first thread we've had on someone getting counterfeit money out of a bank ATM. This is rather disturbing, because you'd think that the bank would be screening what they are distributing, not just letting it go right back out to customers. I think if I got a counterfeit bill from a bank ATM, and most DEFINITELY if they refused to make good on it, it would be the last day I did business with that bank. If I can't trust the bank to screen their money and give out good bills, then I'm moving my money to another bank.
 
  • #13
I'd be suprised if the bank does anything about it. I seriously doubt they will reimburse him. I've gotten a counterfeit bill from a grocery store and I didn't catch it til later. The store refused to do anything about it, even though they found another counterfeit in their till.
 
  • #14
tribdog said:
I'd be suprised if the bank does anything about it. I seriously doubt they will reimburse him. I've gotten a counterfeit bill from a grocery store and I didn't catch it til later. The store refused to do anything about it, even though they found another counterfeit in their till.

That's different, though: that would mean the grocery store going out of pocket. The OP is talking about a bank. I would say that they would replace it for him.
 
  • #15
cristo said:
That's different, though: that would mean the grocery store going out of pocket. The OP is talking about a bank. I would say that they would replace it for him.

no difference between a bank or a grocery store. to replace the bill either one has to go out of pocket.
 
  • #16
I can't believe a counterfeit bill made it through an ATM. There are 5 or more safety features that check to make sure it doesn't happen. If the bill is good enough to fool an ATM I can't believe you caught it. If it can fool an ATM go stick it in some machine and let the next guy worry about it.
 
  • #17
tribdog said:
no difference between a bank or a grocery store. to replace the bill either one has to go out of pocket.
The difference is that we don't necessarily expect the kid behind the register in a grocery store to be an expert on counterfeit detection, and the money handed to them gets handed right back out (if you catch it as they hand it to you, though, and refuse to accept it, then they are the one on the hook for it). I DO expect the bank to know money and be vigilant about detecting fake bills...that's part of their business. So, if the bank doesn't make good on it, then it's their reputation that's shot, especially if they're the ones distributing counterfeits.

tribdog said:
I can't believe a counterfeit bill made it through an ATM. There are 5 or more safety features that check to make sure it doesn't happen. If the bill is good enough to fool an ATM I can't believe you caught it. If it can fool an ATM go stick it in some machine and let the next guy worry about it.

I don't think ATMs actually check the money, they just count out the bills they are filled with. If you deposit money, it goes in an envelope kept separate from what's being paid out.
 
  • #18
no, the atm checks several different things to make sure it gives you the correct amount. I've got a Scientific American article around here somewhere, it talks about how the atm checks things like paper thickness. I'll look for it.
 
  • #19
http://newsguru.newsvine.com/_news/2008/07/23/1688869-bank-gave-couple-10-counterfeit-bills-during-transaction

A quick search came up with this, no idea if it is true or if an ATM would pass them.
 
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  • #20
tribdog said:
I'd be suprised if the bank does anything about it. I seriously doubt they will reimburse him. I've gotten a counterfeit bill from a grocery store and I didn't catch it til later. The store refused to do anything about it, even though they found another counterfeit in their till.

The bank will pay out. The ATM is a service convenience for them as much as for you. Pay a machine or pay a teller? Machine every time. And if they eat a few bad bills, they want people to be happy with their use. The last thing they want is people coming into use tellers again.

There is recourse of course, because in the unlikely event they refuse you can charge them with fraud in supplying you with fake currency and debiting your account. You are still the wronged party. And I doubt they would want the notoriety being sued in court would bring. (I'd file in small claims court and send letters to the local newspapers about your filing and court date, with copies of the letters to the bank along with their summons to appear. That would get the attention of a VP and they would settle the matter in a flash. All that bad publicity over a bad P-note? Not likely.)
 
  • #21
wow, you must bank somewhere different than I do. My bank would say prove that bill came out of our ATM. And what bad publicity would they have to worry about? I doubt the story would make the evening news and are you going to spend any time picketing? or spend money on signs? They cannot take his word that the bill came out of the ATM, otherwise people could just start printing them up on their computers and bring them to the bank for "cleaning" I'm assuming that oAQfirst isn't a major stockholder in the bank. There is just no way to prove the bill came out of the ATM so you wouldn't win a court case. So the only threat to the bank is that you quit banking with them and are you really going to go to all the trouble of changing banks? and if you do does it really cost that bank as much as it would cost them to replace the bill? A bank doesn't make much money off of an account with an average balance of between 100-500 dollars (i'm guessing)
 
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  • #22
tribdog said:
wow, you must bank somewhere different than I do.

Apparently I do. You may want to look for a better bank.

As a bank president if I had a branch manager that refused to pay it out, and tried to blow off a customer like that and not retrieve the note and not investigate how it would be possible that a note could make it through the system, and that particular machine, whether or not the customer possibly might be lying, I would likely fire the manager. What you have is not only bad public relations, but you have a potentially larger problem of counterfeit currency entering the bank's system and they potentially don't have adequate safeguards for their entire system of ATM machines.

Banks are about trust. And a failure to consider the potential fall-out both to reputation and potential system failure for such a thing as just a single bad p-note - it's a p-note for heavens sakes - shows serious lack of business judgment.

I'd definitely bank elsewhere by virtue of the fact that if that was the culture of the bank, how could it really be trusted to continue longer term as a place I could trust to manage my money?

This would perhaps qualify as being pennywise and p-note foolish if they behaved as you suggest?
 

1. What is a p-note?

A p-note, also known as a participatory note, is a type of financial instrument issued by foreign institutional investors (FIIs) to overseas investors, allowing them to invest in the Indian stock market without registering with the Securities and Exchange Board of India (SEBI).

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A p-note is created when an FII purchases Indian securities on behalf of an overseas investor. The FII then issues a p-note to the investor, which represents their ownership of the underlying securities. The investor can then trade the p-note in the secondary market without having to go through the registration process.

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