Can I Become a Physicist Without a College Degree?

[kamalayka]

I am a 23yr old high-school dropout.

Ahh! Wait!

Before you roll your eyes and say, "sorry, pal, not a snowball's chance in hell," let me elaborate a bit.

A few years ago, I discovered that I have an affinity for math. Since then I have learned the following topics through self-study:

Intermediate Algebra
College Algebra
Geometry
Trigonometry
Basic Statistics
"College Mathematics" (precalculus stuff)
Calculus (limits, continuity, differentiation, applications of the derivative, exponential, logarithmic and hyperbolic functions, infinite sequences and series, vectors, functions of several variables, partial derivatives and multiple integration)

I plan on attempting an introductory text to discrete mathematics, and if I manage that, I'll then attempt linear algebra.

Up until a few days ago, I had absolutely no reason for learning mathematics other than simple curiosity. But then I thought to myself, "well, living in a crummy apartment with a dead-end job sucks."

How does one go to college -- especially if said person is a dirt poor high school dropout?

And for the record, this post is NOT trolling. My purpose in describing my mathematical knowledge is not to brag, but to show that I am serious about the goals that I set for myself.

Since I have no recourse to physicists in real life, I am hoping somebody here can enlighten me.

Does it also matter that I am not one of those genius types that physics students are protrayed to be in popular culture? I can fully grasp all of the mathematical concepts I've learned thus far (at least, I like to believe I can), but I am most definitely NOT one of those whizzes who can crunch a bunch of numbers off the top of their head.

I just want an honest opinion: do I have ANY hope of becoming a physicist? Or am I too old/unorthodox?

 

[Evo]

You're a high school dropout. Did you get your GED?

 

[MarneMath]

Well, the odds for anyone to become a Physicist is low for anyone, but that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't study physics if you enjoy it.

As for how to start college, then the most simple and cheapest route would be to go to a community college for two years, maybe three to get the prereq out of the way. Then transfer to a 4 year university and finish your degree. If you do well enough, and are in financial need, you should be able to get scholarships/grants.

Some people here may say that only the best and talented will ever become physicist. Other will say it's all about hard work. And then some others will say it's a combination of smarts, hard work, and timing. I have no personal experience trying to be one, but nevertheless, if you enjoy it then go for it. Even if the job you end up with after graduation isn't physics related, it probably will, at the very least, open up doors to a career that sucks a bit less than the one you have now.

Or become a statistician and roll in money :D.

EDIT: I'm assuming you have a GED

 

[kamalayka]

I do have a GED.

For what it's worth, I am good at abstract thinking.

I only got one wrong on this test:

http://www.fibonicci.com/abstract-reasoning/test/hard/

(It's pretty fun, if you want to try it. In each question, you look at the top row from left to right, then choose the one from the bottom row whichyou think is next in the sequence.)

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

I don't want to burst your bubble, but it's not that much fun as the media depicts it.

 

[Astrum]

I don't want to burst your bubble, but it's not that much fun as the media depicts it.

Well, the media doesn't show you the hard "dry" bits of it.

It's a lot of work, and you may be in love with the fantasy of being a scientist (in other words, you may find that you don't like science). Get a taste of it of it at a CC before spending lots of money at a university.

 

[kamalayka]

I don't have any glamorous views about science or scientists. In fact, I don't even want to be a scientist.

 

[Astrum]

I don't have any glamorous views about science or scientists. In fact, I don't even want to be a scientist.

Well, the title is "I want to be a Physicist". Anyway, give it a shot at a CC, as others have said.

 

[ZapperZ]

I don't have any glamorous views about science or scientists. In fact, I don't even want to be a scientist.

What do you think a "physicist" is? You labelled this thread as "I want to be a physicist". A physicist is a scientist.

This is getting to be rather puzzling.

Zz.

 

[PhysicsWanabe]

I don't have any glamorous views about science or scientists. In fact, I don't even want to be a scientist.

Then why did you post this?

 

[Julio R]

Then why did you post this?

Maybe he's trolling? If that's the case then it has been a waste of our time.

 

[kamalayka]

I wasn't clear in the title. I meant that I would like to knowledgeable in physics.

Honestly, I've just been bouncing possible career directions around in my head for a while.

I really want to study something that involves lots of mathematics and abstract thinking. (My approach to calculus was very proof-based, and I loved it.)

I wouldn't mind doing low-level work, either. I doubt I am smart enough for grad school, so a BS will have to do.

 

[ZapperZ]

I wasn't clear in the title. I meant that I would like to knowledgeable in physics.

Honestly, I've just been bouncing possible career directions around in my head for a while.

I really want to study something that involves lots of mathematics and abstract thinking. (My approach to calculus was very proof-based, and I loved it.)

I wouldn't mind doing low-level work, either. I doubt I am smart enough for grad school, so a BS will have to do.

Ok, since we now know that what you wrote is not necessarily what you mean, please explain what you mean by being "knowledgable" in physics. This is vague. At what level are you aiming for, and how do you intend to determine if you have reached that level?

Zz.

 

[kamalayka]

I'm not even sure what I mean.

Maybe I'll do a philosophy degree and continue doing math as a hobby. (I hope that philosophy factory downtown will be hiring when I graduate.)

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Can a person with high-functioning autism even go to college?

 

[Julio R]

Sounds like a crackpot.
Are you sure you're not trolling?

 

[kamalayka]

The university I live near has a "3+2" agreement with Penn State: three years at the first university and then two years at Penn State would mean a BA in Physics (from the first school) and a BS in engineering (from Penn State).

That sounds interesting, but also a bit intimidating. (Math comes naturally for me, so that's a plus. I might take a class in calculus-based physics at my local community college and see how I fare.)

 

[kamalayka]

Sounds like a crackpot.
Are you sure you're not trolling?

Crackpot?

Nope -- I never tried a cigarette, let alone crack. From age five to seventeen I was forced into piano lessons, which meant no social life/opportunity to experiment with drugs.

If I come across as weird, it's because I have autism. (The truth is that I am a high-functioning autistic, which means that I have autism but am 100% independent. For example, I can talk to people, but if I make eye contact with somebody for too long, my mind ponders things like, "how long do I stare at one eye before focusing on the other?" or "is it possible to look at both eyes at once?" and similar questions. By the time the person is done talking, I'm like, "huh?")

And no, I'm not trolling.

 

[FastWing]

I'm not even sure what I mean.

Maybe I'll do a philosophy degree and continue doing math as a hobby. (I hope that philosophy factory downtown will be hiring when I graduate.)

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Can a person with high-functioning autism even go to college?

Don't mention philosophy in this forum. Philosophy is hated/taboo in this forum. Your joke about the philosophy factory makes it seem like you're trolling.

Your autism isn't going to prevent you from going to college. If you self-studied, then you obviously know that physics isn't as glamorous as the media makes it seem.

A physicist is a scientist. If you're looking for money/employment, I recommend engineering (application of science; not scientists).

Why did you drop out in the first place?

 

[kamalayka]

I dropped out because of the bullying I faced everyday. (It sounds sort of cliche to say that, I know.)

Why is philosophy hated on this forum?

What about the philosophy of mathematics?

In my opinion, philosophy is very much like mathematics, especially formal logic:


http://www.gregcaughill.com/philosophy-wiki/philosophy-course-notes/65-introduction-to-formal-logic.html

 

[Julio R]

I think philosophy is good for law school. Well the ethics side. I think most people on this forum are not into pseudoscience like metaphysics that often violates laws in science. A very popular one that violates the second law of thermodynamics is not allowed in this forum along within many others.

 

[lch7]

Very cool you taught yourself all that, is there a particular question in this thread that you would like answered?

Also, I taught myself all of that by age 15, it's cool to see someone with similar ambitions.

 

[kamalayka]

I think philosophy is good for law school. Well the ethics side. I think most people on this forum are not into pseudoscience like metaphysics that often violates laws in science. A very popular one that violates the second law of thermodynamics is not allowed in this forum along within many others.

Could you elaborate, or are such discussions censored by the moderators?

And, for that matter, what exactly is pseudoscience? Would music theory be considered pseudoscience? Or the laws of grammar?

 

[kamalayka]

Very cool you taught yourself all that, is there a particular question in this thread that you would like answered?

Also, I taught myself all of that by age 15, it's cool to see someone with similar ambitions.

The average age for college freshman in the early 19th century was aroung 16, and the average workload was about three times what it is today. (I can't recall the exact article in which I read this.)

And if you look at the number of college freshman who are not adequately prepared for studies (especially in math and writing), and compare it to just thiry years ago, you'll notice a steady decline.

My crystal ball tells me that the college freshman in 2100 will be age 20 and that the bachelor degree will take maybe five or more years complete.

This is all under the assumption that China isn't the main superpower by then.

 

[Julio R]

Pseudoscience is something that claims to be science but does not follow the scientific method. Astrology and mysticism are examples. I think any further discussion is not allowed because of forum rules. There are good articles online. Wikepedia has a decent general explanation.

 

[carlgrace]

I'm not even sure what I mean.

Maybe I'll do a philosophy degree and continue doing math as a hobby. (I hope that philosophy factory downtown will be hiring when I graduate.)

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

Can a person with high-functioning autism even go to college?

My sister is a high-functioning woman with autism.

She also dropped out of high school.

She is now a University Professor (not in science) and mom to twins.

You can do it! The community college route is excellent advice. That's what my sister did.

 

[RJinkies]

Hi Kamalakya...

What algebra textbook and calculus textbook did you self-study from?

And how deeply did you read them? All the chapters, most of the chapters?
some of the sections in most of the chapters?

and how many of the problems did you do?

and have you studied any basic physics books, algebra, or maybe own a 4 dollar used calculus physics text at all?

----

I just think that you might be better off doing more self-study, in more depth on your on before taking a leap into 'grades and classes' for a while...

One of the most useful things i found is to think of a course not as a 'textbook' and 'exams' but something to just think about on a chapter by chapter basis.

As in trying for near complete mastery of one chapter in your math or physics book, and doing *all* the problems.

Where you're reading one chapter/section many many times and totally understand all the examples [inside out and backwards]

If could be a lot better if you always take all math prerequisites and corequisites WAY before you need them in 'actual physics' and

ideally you'll struggle way less if you can get 2 math books
a. calculus with calc I II III IV
b. Differential Equations [for two semesters, elementary Diff Eqs and Boundary Value Problems]

getting that out of the way, can probably free you up enough do you could do most any 'physics course', unless you wanted to merge something like a mathematical physics degree which is like a 75% of a pure math degree with 97% of a honours physics degree [you'd need mostly a class that's a whole year, or 45 weeks of 'Analysis' - something like Rudin/Strogatz/Apostol etc]

If you can get to the point of where you can read half way into vector calculus, or diff equations, feel confident that you pushed 95% of your math struggles away from you for life. [You might need a class in complex variables or analysis, but 95% of people with a BSc in physics don't]

just Calculus IV and a whole textbook on Diff Equations]

If you get into some types of special relativity with gravitation, you'll take Differential Geometry, sometimes called Vector Calculus II.

----

Physics, I'll make it simple...

you can probably get through most of the hurdles this way

a. high school physics - 30 weeks - say a 1960s PSSC high school physics text and Sears textbook 'College Physics'

b. Calculus Physics - Halliday and Resnick's Fundamental of Physics [i liked the 3rd Edition], or [or their 70s Physics which was 5% harder and deeper with a big more history]

[Halliday-Resnick/Serway/ Bueche's College Physics [uses some calculus]
and maybe the 1965-1975 Volumes 1 and 2 of the Berkeley Physics Course
[Mechanics by Kittel and Electricity and Magnetism by Purcell]

----

c. the rest of the Berkeley series - books 3 4 5
[Waves/Optics/Vibrations - Quantum - Statistical Physics/Thermodynamics]

d. Griffith's 3 books
[Electromagnetism - Quantum - Particle Physics]

-----

e. maybe a book on mathematical physics/mathematical methods [Byron and Fuller/Butkow]

------I think physics can be simpler if you just break it down into
a. master PSSC and College Physics by Sears [algebra]
b. master Halliday and Resnick or Serway [calculus physics]
c. get the 5 Berkeley books
d. get the 3 Griffith books

with Berkeley you got what's really half a physics degree, and if you can digest those books in 60 weeks, the hardest hurdles are over with.

same with Griffiths, it's been said that David Griffiths is so helpful as an educator that he could teach physics to gerbils. And well mastering EM and Quantum is usually the hardest and deepest stuff you do after you master first year calculus physics.

----

the only really scary things in a physics degree is

a. passing through high school physics
b. then calculus physics - mechanics
c. passing through intermediate mechanics - maybe Symon and Kleppner and Kolenkow are the two best books for going 'Beyond' - first year physics with funny motions and forces.

[if you can get through Symon, you run to Goldstein for Advanced Mechanics]

d. struggling through electromagnetism
- with PSSC and Sears
- Halliday and Resnick and PURCELL's book
- maybe Lorrain's intermediate book on EM or Kip's 1960s EM book
- Griffith's EM book

- most souls aim for one more than Griffiths, which is usually a book that prepares you for Jackson or it is Jackson's EM book

e. struggling through QM
[which is usually 3 classes]
[most use 1-2 textbooks and the QM II and QM III classes are using 2-8 textbooks all at once, or 1-2 core books and all the rest as supplementary reading]

-----

So in a nutshell

a. master Calculus I II III IV
b. a whole year of Differential Equations
c. PSSC and Sears for high school physics
d. Halliday and Serway for Calculus physics
e. All of Berkeley - 5 books
f. Griffiths EM and Quantum
g. Intermediate Mechanics with Symon and Kleppner [two of the nicest books]

anything more is

going for superhard
h. EM Courses - getting to Jackson
i. Quantum Courses - where you can obtain Ryder's Quantum Field Theory book or Sakurai's two Quantum books--------

for 500-800 dollars at worst, you could get a dozen textbooks and do an incredible amount yourself in 100 weeks getting half that stuff accomplished.

But self-study is what the best brains in uni do anyways, all it takes is knowing that to get that B at MIT or an Ivy League these people are putting in 50 hours a week, EVERY week, into mastering this stuff. not just 90 minutes, six times a day like many people

but six hours a day, six or seven days a week, 15 weeks solid, rest, and then 15 weeks again at it.

Really, the key to the good marks is

a. SPEND ENOUGH TIME READING
b. KNOW THE EXAMPLES OUTSTANDINGLY WELL
c. Aim for doing ALL the problems in ALL the chapters - it might be 3 times the work and slow going, but

if you know one chapter in physics or math, really really well 90% to 95% perfectly

you can slowly go up the ladder, chapter by chapter in your math textbooks

and go up the ladder, chapter by chapter in your physics books.

Why risk a classroom situation or highly variable text, when you can get a used physics book for 15-25 dollars, and old or new doesn't matter half the time, and as long as you know how deeply to read it, and know what the syllabus is.

you can climb up as far as you like.

If you just master 8 chapters of Halliday and Resnick

2 chapters of Symon

and get 20% through Calculus III with 4 chapters

that's still a good accomplishment.

for 100 people taking Calculus Physics
5 people take a class with Symon or Kleppner/Kolenkow

if you see beauty and neatness in knowing how the universe works, just take it slow, and know that

a. all you need to know is one chapter out of a math text
b. all you need to know is one chapter out of a physics textbook

You can get anywhere in 50, 100, or 150 weeks all on your own

---

no need to get 63% in a physics class or 57% in a calculus class, as you run a ratrace for 12 weeks, if you lack good study skills and wish for more sleep and 'half a life'

in 100 weeks people with zero algebra or physics can actually read
a. Kleppner and Kolenkow
b. Griffiths book on Quantum Mechanics
c. know what div grad and curl is, and what partial differentiation is from starting off only knowing one week of trig...

----

hope you find this useful