Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

If there is not higgs boson

  1. Feb 3, 2013 #1
    Hello all .
    If there is not higgs boson that mean all elementary particle travel velocity of light through space ?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Feb 3, 2013 #2

    phinds

    User Avatar
    Gold Member
    2016 Award

    So, do you think it has been found experimentally true that all elementary particles travel at c? What does that answer tell you about your question?
     
  4. Feb 4, 2013 #3
    Yes i want to know does all particle travel at c when there is not Higgs particle ? or not ?

    I saw a conference in TED that Brian Cox said imagine a room full of people and they are Higgs particle !

    when a particle moves through the universe it can interact with these Higgs particles
    But imagine someone who's not very popular moves through the room Then everyone ignores them. They can just pass through the room very quickly, essentially at the speed of light. They're massless

    And imagine someone incredibly important and popular and intelligent walks into the room.
    They're surrounded by people, and their passage through the room is impeded.
    It's almost like they get heavy. They get massive.
    And that's exactly the way the Higgs mechanism works.
    The picture is that the electrons and the quarks in your body and in the universe that we see around us are heavy, in a sense, and massive, because they're surrounded by Higgs particles. They're interacting with the Higgs field

    So is that mean if there is no Higgs particle ,all elementary particle travel at c in universe ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2013
  5. Feb 4, 2013 #4

    Bill_K

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    If the Higgs did not exist, there are many alternative theories that have been proposed to replace it. For example see this Wikipedia page.
     
  6. Feb 5, 2013 #5

    Bill_K

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    Also, don't think that the mass-giving interaction with the Higgs field is universal. It applies only to particles that participate in the electroweak interactions.

    That includes everything today, but the situation is expected to soon change. There is very good indirect evidence for the existence of dark matter. If dark matter particles do exist, since they don't have an electroweak interaction, they can carry mass without the assistance of the Higgs field.
     
  7. Feb 5, 2013 #6

    PAllen

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    I thought neutralinos could participate in weak interactions, and are a popular dark matter candidate. Am I wrong about this?
     
  8. Feb 5, 2013 #7

    Bill_K

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    At one time, dark matter particle was virtually synonymous with WIMP, but continued negative results from the detection experiments have nearly ruled this possibility out.

    And also, if supersymmetric partners exist, their mass cannot come from Higgs either.
     
  9. Feb 5, 2013 #8

    mfb

    User Avatar
    2016 Award

    Staff: Mentor

    It is not, and I do not like the analogy, as it can be misleading: There are slow, light particles, and fast, heavy particles. Actually, every particle is slow in some reference frames and fast in others. And the Higgs field does not "slow down" anything - if no external forces act on a particle, it just keeps its velocity (unlike a crowd at a party).

    Gluons do not participate in the electroweak interaction, and photons do not get a mass from the Higgs boson.
    Most dark matter models assume particles which do interact via the weak interaction.
     
  10. Feb 5, 2013 #9

    Bill_K

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    Unfortunately, those models are turning out to be wrong. :frown: What about axions?
     
  11. Feb 5, 2013 #10

    PAllen

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

  12. Feb 5, 2013 #11

    mfb

    User Avatar
    2016 Award

    Staff: Mentor

    To quote a SUSY physicist: "You cannot exclude SUSY".
    The lightest supersymmetric particle (LSP) will stay a potential candidate for a while, I think.

    Oh, and axions couple to the electroweak interaction ;).
     
  13. Feb 5, 2013 #12

    Haelfix

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    The answer is no, even if there were no Higgs boson, particles would not be massless and travel at the speed c.

    The reason is rather subtle but in fact most of the particles in (eg QCD) will in fact acquire a mass regardless via spontaneous chiral symmetry breaking. Eg you would see a nonzero quark condensate (a pion like state) that would lead to dynamical mass generation. This would be a factor of 100 or 1000 lighter than what is currently observed, but nevertheless they would not remain massless.
     
  14. Feb 6, 2013 #13

    tom.stoer

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    I don't think that hadron masses are related to chiral symmetry breaking; chiral symmetry breaking with massless quarks (w/o Higgs) results in massless pions. Mechanisms related to hadron confinement and therefore mass spectra are not related to chiral symmetry breaking, at least not directly.
     
  15. Feb 6, 2013 #14

    Haelfix

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    I don't quite agree, although this is a rather subtle nonperturbative statement. The point I recall is that quark bilinears acquire a VeV with 3 generations of quarks, even if they are massless, as it arises as a consequence of anomaly matching conditions.

    Now, it is true that you will have a massless pion in the absense of a higgs mechanism to give masses to the quarks but the other mesons will nevertheless acquire a dynamical mass. Further, b/c of this nonpertubative chiral symmetry breaking, this also implies a smallish contribution to the electroweak symmetry breaking as well. And indeed this is the general idea behind Technicolor.
     
  16. Feb 6, 2013 #15

    tom.stoer

    User Avatar
    Science Advisor

    But I still do not see any relevance for hadron masses
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook




Similar Discussions: If there is not higgs boson
  1. Higgs Bosons (Replies: 9)

  2. Higgs Boson (Replies: 1)

  3. Higgs Boson (Replies: 29)

  4. Higgs boson. (Replies: 2)

  5. Higgs boson (Replies: 9)

Loading...