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I'm an RN as well as Zen Shiatsu therapist

  1. Feb 15, 2006 #1
    Hopefully this is the right place to post this.

    I'm an RN as well as Zen Shiatsu therapist. What is the energy that I've personally felt from others and others have felt from my hands? Couple examples: once a Reiki therapist started the session by touching my feet. I felt a very intense "wave" go all the way up to about mid thigh. It was as distinct as lying on a beach and having a wave wash over you.

    Many of my clients remark how hot my hands are. Some can sense when I'm 6-12 inches away. Other bodyworkers have the same experience. It's feels much hotter than just the usual touch. Many also remark about how they can feel "stuff" going on inside, for example, an injured area. I've noticed that it is much stronger over covered skin versus bare skin and sometimes even stronger when you're not actually touching the skin.

    What's up from you guys perspective?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Mar 2, 2006 #2
    No one? You guys all stumped?
     
  4. Mar 2, 2006 #3

    DaveC426913

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    I'm not sure "stumped" is the operative word; I imagine "skeptical" is more appropriate.
     
  5. Mar 3, 2006 #4
    I had reiki done once and know what you're talking about. The woman started out by raising her hands above her head and bringing them down onto my chest. I felt the most amazing "wave" of pleasurable "energy" spread out from where her hands made contact. Later, there was often a sense of great heat emanating from her hands.

    I don't believe there is any actual "energy" being transferred here, though, just that the passive state of mind you're in combined with the air of ritual elicits physiological reactions to that effect. I was reminded of several times when I had been touched unexpectedly by women I was talking to which created a similar "wave" of sensation spreading out from the point of contact. Alot of women instinctively know this trick and when it will work. The emotional tension between you has to be within a certain range, and there seems to have to be a suddenness, unexpectedness to the touch that surprises you. The approach is fast, but they pull the punch at the end and when contact is made it is very gentle. This is usually on the arm or shoulder. A touch like that on a persons chest is even more intimate and powerful, especially when you aren't expecting it.

    I think the "heat" is a similar kind of instinctive manipulation of physiology. As I recall, she wasn't even actually making contact when I felt it. I believe there is something about knowing someone is right on the verge of touching you, but hovering without making contact, that causes you to have this reaction. It probably makes the capillaries in the skin dilate.

    Think of the opposite situation: if someone who repelled you, whom you absolutely didn't want to touch you, were getting into your personal space and doing all that touching and near touching, you'd probably end up feeling sick, unwell. A reiki practitioner knows how to set it all up so you don't feel resistant. Instead you're passive, and revert, emotionally, to about a three year old. The merest sad thought can bring you to tears, or you can feel relaxed and serene.
     
  6. Mar 3, 2006 #5

    FredGarvin

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    My wife is a licensed MT and exercise physiologist. I think the Riki stuff is a load of crap myself. My wife doesn't put much creedence in it either. I'm not going to put the kibosh on it all together, but there are a lot of crackpots out there that say that they can use it to heal and other outlandish claims that can not be backed up. I personally believe that the person on the table is pshycologically set up before hand to expect something so they think they actually do.

    Heat is a dangerous word for people to use because heat is an easy thing to measure and verify. I have a sneaky suspicion that no one would agree to having someone measure temperatures in a person's body with thermal imaging during one of these sessions.

    When I see a serious study, i.e. non-anecdotal, I will be less skeptical.
     
  7. Mar 3, 2006 #6

    Astronuc

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    The sensation of 'heat' or hot is a neural response. Physically, heat is transferred only where there is a temperature difference. Heat (energy) is transferred by conduction, convection and radiation.

    I too am skeptical like DaveC426913 and FredGarvin. I am also skeptical about crystals and vortices. But then I am an engineer.

    But then again, I do enjoy a back rub or massage when my muscles are taut or stiff. I usually massage arms or legs or lower back myself or apply a heating pad.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2006
  8. Mar 3, 2006 #7

    FredGarvin

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    I thoroughly respect the benefits of massage, especially sports related therapy which my wife specializes in. It is an incredible benefit. So does pretty much every professional sports team on the planet. Plus, it just feels good.
     
  9. Mar 3, 2006 #8

    Astronuc

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    That's a good reason. :biggrin:

    Muscles need to be tenderized, just like Kobe beef, where Japanese farmers massage their beef cattle. :biggrin:

    http://www.askthemeatman.com/kobe_beef.htm - The massaging is done to relieve stress and muscle stiffness.
     
  10. Mar 3, 2006 #9
    Not sure why you're pointing this out.

    Not sure why you aren't including me in your list of skeptics. I think I completely debunked the whole phenomenon as a psychologically induced one.
     
  11. Mar 3, 2006 #10

    russ_watters

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    I don't know about the rest of it, but there is nothing at all unusual or mystical there. If you stimulate nerve endings or cords in certain ways, it can send the sensation up or down the entire section of your nervous system. That's what bumping your "funny bone" is all about and I guess your feet have a sensitive spot that works the same way.

    Sensation passed without touching -- no. Double-blind studies have been done and there is no sensation that can be transferred without touch. Here's one rather famous study done by a 9 year old for a science fair project (yeah, I'm suuuuuuure she didn't have help :rolleyes: )

    http://www.nurseweek.com/features/98-6/touch.html
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2006
  12. Mar 3, 2006 #11
    well, most the other people who have posted in this thread are older and wiser and have had more education in the sciences than me. plus, i grew up in a background very accepting to this kind of stuff. my mother is a massage therapist, and a good friend of hers is a physical therapist and rolfer. from personal experience, i've felt their hands, and they're always warm. hand of a healer we always say. i'm confident that at any given momeny my mother's hands are signficantly warmer than mine, and that it could be measured. maybe its because they do a lot of work with their hands and generally have better circulation in their fingers, thus having warmer hands. i'm not sure, but its definetly something.

    i've also had various forms of therapy done. from crystal energy work to traditional massage and all sorts of things in between. some things have had noticable "energy" feelings to them. even just meditation and yoga can have that feeling. i actually have posted here a few times about it, and as you have, i encountered much skepticism.

    in my opinion, which granted isn't an authority in any sense, i think that "energy" has a lot to do with blood flow. i think when you or someone else stimulates a certain part of your body, it causes blood to be sent to that area in response. i think that for many people, when you're attune to your body, or given a good therapist, this is a sudden and noticable change.
     
  13. Mar 3, 2006 #12

    FredGarvin

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    Yoga and meditation are not in the same ballpark. It can be easily shown the correlation between the breath and it physiological effects. I practice both of those and I will defend those practices without hesitation. What is being treated with skepticism is the no touch energy transfer that some people insist they "feel."

    As far as the hot hands...well, I can't say too much to that. My wife does an average of 5 massages a day and her hands can be frigind cold at times.
     
  14. Mar 3, 2006 #13
    You're getting into false debunking here. You don't have to physically touch something hot to feel its heat.

    Having actually had this done to me I can tell you it feels like the persons hands are so warm that you can sense it on your skin just by radiation.

    Either the practitioner's hands do get really warm, which could be measured, or it's the anticipatory thing I explained, where having someone holding their hands just on the verge of touching you causes you to flood the area in question with blood by dilating those capillaries. Ever take a whole niacin tablet without food? Makes your skin fell like it's burning hot cause it dilates all the capillaries.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2006
  15. Mar 3, 2006 #14

    Astronuc

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    That's why I mentioned the heat transfer processes: conduction, convection and radiation.

    And I would add, that I am skeptical like Zoobyshoe. :smile:

    I've never done that, so I can't comment. :wink:

    That occasionally happens to me, and all that comes to mind is why the woman in question is touching me, especially when it is a woman who knows that I am married. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2006
  16. Mar 4, 2006 #15
    I discovered that there is massage therapy even for horses. "Equine Massage" :biggrin:.
     
  17. Mar 9, 2006 #16
    Thanks guys for the responses. One physicist I emailed thinks the initial wave of "energy" was probably similar to what is called to what "some call Kundalini and is nervous energy like sexual energy felt throughout the body."

    Regarding the warm hands, he mentioned radiant energy.

    I did the three levels of Reiki also because I got to do it for free. I did have some crazy experience with it such as about a month of continous erections at night. Not much of a problem here except for the difficulty turning over in back and lack of sleep. :rofl:

    One experiment I had my shiatsu students do at the beginning of their course...before they knew about each other...was to scan their hands over a partner and then switch. The plan was to notice anything such as heat, cold, drawing in or pushing away or any images that flashes up, etc.. Almost 100% could pick up stuff in their partner's body such as covered bruises, old injuries, surgical scars,etc., etc.. The majority of these students were also acupuncture students who also had to take bodywork. What's interesting is that many of them were engineers and IT guys from Dell...at least I thought it was interesting.
     
  18. Mar 9, 2006 #17
    Just for the record, this study greatly embarassed the Journal of the American Medical Association and was partly a reason the editor was fired. Seems they didn't even follow their own peer review process. It also didn't even test therapeutic touch which it claimed to debunk. A skeptical society even called them on the carpet saying if you are going to debunk something at least do it correctly. The "study" became famous allright but for the wrong reason!
     
  19. Mar 9, 2006 #18
    I would agree. In fact that reminds me...a big hospital near me has an MRI and medical costs are dirt cheap here in Bangladesh. Uhmmm, let me think on this.
     
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