I'm feeling sorry for the Penn Staters

[Moonbear]

UNIVERSITY PARK -- Better leave the portable coffee mug in the dorm next week.

Penn State has banned drinks and food in all 370 general-purpose classrooms at University Park. The only exception is for water bottles.

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/15422828.htm

I don't envy you all having to survive your morning classes without coffee! Are the students there really such big slobs, or is this a big fuss over nothing? Surely there had to be a better way to handle the problem. If it's any consolation, if I was teaching there, I wouldn't enforce such a silly rule unless you were getting pizza delivery and didn't ask me what toppings I wanted. :rofl:

 

[Gokul43201]

Forgot the link, Moonie!

 

[Moonbear]

Forgot the link, Moonie!

Oops. Thanks. It's there now.

 

[JasonRox]

I like that idea!

I hate when people are eating in class. There is no excuse for that. Also, I hate the coffee drinkers too because a lot of them leave the cups on the desk or on the floor. It's just a mess.

This is good for Penn State. The school will become cleaner and it will demand more respect for the school from the students.

 

[Cyrus]

:rofl: I ate stuff in class all the time during the summer, but I don't have time during the regular semester. Sometimes Ill eat a snack though... What is this, kindergarten? Do they get nap time and time out as well? :rofl:

Aye Caramba!

Together they account for only 4 percent of the indoor space at University Park. But janitors often devote most of their time to cleaning the rooms, Blythe said.

Uhhh, isn't that their job?

"We debated whether to go that route, whether to add the cost to tuition," spokesman Bill Mahon said. "We decided instead that the ban would be the direction to go."

WRONG. You make them pay until it hurts. And you print on the bill a little line that says "tuition increase due to trash"

 

[mattmns]

I hear you Jason, I hate it when those stupid coffee drinkers (or coke drinkers) leave a mess on the tables! I especially hate it when they spill coffee/coke on the floor/tables, ughh! Good to see that water is still allowed, as water is awesome (and the only thing I drink ).

 

[Cyrus]

This is puzzling to me...no one leaves a mess in the lecture halls I have sat in and those are 300+ people...you all must have schools full of slobs.

 

[Math Is Hard]

At my community college, all food and drink was strictly prohibited in the newly built classrooms. No water, no gum, no nothing. Even the teacher had to step outside to take a swig of water.

 

[FrogPad]

So I take it they are going to drop tuition prices, because they are saving so much money now right?

I'd be pissed if I was a student there. I drink coffee all the time in class. I also throw it away on the way out.

They should start fining professors if they break chalk. They should only allow professors to use powerpoint presentations to save on cleaning costs for the boards. They might as well teach under candle light, or better yet, outside.

blah... you can't take away coffee!

 

[JasonRox]

They should start fining professors if they break chalk. They should only allow professors to use powerpoint presentations to save on cleaning costs for the boards. They might as well teach under candle light, or better yet, outside.

I think you are missing the point.

In some schools, the mess after class is a problem and it does cost money to clean.

You're going way overboard.

 

[FrogPad]

I think you are missing the point.

In some schools, the mess after class is a problem and it does cost money to clean.

You're going way overboard.

I don't think I am missing the point. Maybe I am, but...

They went overboard, so I went overboard.

Say a dog urinates on the carpet. If you try to rationalize with the animal by saying "no", "bad dog", you may get the dog to stop doing it, but it is highly unlikely. What is more likely to happen, is the dog will continue to urinate in the wrong spot. Now instead, if you rub that dogs face in it, it will probably stop. Or it will at least think twice about urinating on the carpet before it does so.

Well completely killing all food and drink in the classroom is rubbing the students face in the carpet. It is extreme, but will probably be effective. However, the students are not dogs, and should not be treated as such. They could implement it temporarily, and that may be as effective.

Yes. Yes. It costs money to clean up after these students. It costs money to do most everything. We could start to analyze a lot of different things, and see how damn expensive it is to do them. I'll give you an example.

I hate it when people do not wash their hands after using the restroom. These people (I have no facts to back up what I'm saying) may be spreading germs. I might get sick because an indivdual uses the restroom, does not wash their hands, touches a door which I open, and then I touch my eye. Should we enfore mandatory hand washing? Should schools fine individuals for not washing their hands? Second hand smoking is such a problem... yet "second hand" germ contamination is overlooked.

All I'm saying is that they need to be reasonable... and I think banning food and drink from a classroom is NOT reasonable. Maybe it's just the caffeine addiction talking But I can't imagine making it through some classes without my travel coffee mug, and a strong cup of the good stuff.

 

[Moonbear]

Why not just send out a notice to ask students to remember to pick up their trash when they leave? I've never seen a classroom left in such a mess just because students are bringing their coffee with them. Then again, the article says they are only cleaning the classrooms once a day. Maybe that's the problem. Do they leave enough, readily accessible trashcans to hold all the litter if they are only cleaning once a day?

I expect that by the time someone gets to college, they no longer need a sippy cup to keep from making a mess with their beverages. And, why are water bottles less messy than coffee in a travel mug?

If I was teaching at Penn State, I'd be the first one breaking the no coffee in the lecture hall rule! Just banning all food and beverage, but then making exceptions for water bottles doesn't make any sense. To bring a cup of coffee or can of soda to class with you so you can stay awake through the entire lecture isn't all that unreasonable. Neither is bringing a sandwich or muffin or other light snack when you're rushed to get from class to class. It's not elementary school where everyone gets guaranteed a lunch hour and recess, some students genuinely end up with classes scheduled spanning the entire lunch hour and I'd rather they be able to eat in the classroom than not be able to focus on lecture because they are hungry. I really doubt they're showing up with 4 course meals. Each lecturer can determine for themself if a student is doing something disruptive and can ask them to stop if that's the case, but to ban all food and beverage because the custodians only want to clean the most utilized rooms on campus once a day is just plain silly. Of course they get dirtier than places like hallways and offices, they have WAY more people going through them.

 

[FrogPad]

Why not just send out a notice to ask students to remember to pick up their trash when they leave? I've never seen a classroom left in such a mess just because students are bringing their coffee with them. Then again, the article says they are only cleaning the classrooms once a day. Maybe that's the problem. Do they leave enough, readily accessible trashcans to hold all the litter if they are only cleaning once a day?

I expect that by the time someone gets to college, they no longer need a sippy cup to keep from making a mess with their beverages. And, why are water bottles less messy than coffee in a travel mug?

If I was teaching at Penn State, I'd be the first one breaking the no coffee in the lecture hall rule! Just banning all food and beverage, but then making exceptions for water bottles doesn't make any sense. To bring a cup of coffee or can of soda to class with you so you can stay awake through the entire lecture isn't all that unreasonable. Neither is bringing a sandwich or muffin or other light snack when you're rushed to get from class to class. It's not elementary school where everyone gets guaranteed a lunch hour and recess, some students genuinely end up with classes scheduled spanning the entire lunch hour and I'd rather they be able to eat in the classroom than not be able to focus on lecture because they are hungry. I really doubt they're showing up with 4 course meals. Each lecturer can determine for themself if a student is doing something disruptive and can ask them to stop if that's the case, but to ban all food and beverage because the custodians only want to clean the most utilized rooms on campus once a day is just plain silly. Of course they get dirtier than places like hallways and offices, they have WAY more people going through them.

amen

 

[JasonRox]

Why not just send out a notice to ask students to remember to pick up their trash when they leave? I've never seen a classroom left in such a mess just because students are bringing their coffee with them. Then again, the article says they are only cleaning the classrooms once a day. Maybe that's the problem. Do they leave enough, readily accessible trashcans to hold all the litter if they are only cleaning once a day?

I expect that by the time someone gets to college, they no longer need a sippy cup to keep from making a mess with their beverages. And, why are water bottles less messy than coffee in a travel mug?

Um... they probably have tried all of the above. If they did, they certainly wouldn't publish it like the article above. At this point, we don't know if they did or not, so it makes no sense to suggest ideas because they might have tried them.

I wouldn't risk being the first to break the rule if I work there as a professor. Depending on your position or reputation, they may just fire you for not adhering to the rules.

It's a simple rule. I don't see what the big deal is. Drinking and eating in class is a bad habit in my opinion and should have never started and we shouldn't just let people develop bad habits. We allow people develop bad habits much too often, especially in school.

Note: One of those habits is not finishing work on time and pushing the date back for the students. This whole idea should never have happened either. If there is a special case, the student should represent his problem individually and it should be dealt with only one individual. The rest of the class should just learn to respect that. It's becoming easier and easier to push teachers/professors around now, and it's no wonder they're losing respect from the students.

Note: I have classes that span the lunch hour. Classes are usually like an hour long. I'm not going to die of hunger waiting an hour. Plus, if I was a professor and had a class at lunch hour, I wouldn't want to see all my students eating food. They will probably lose their focus on the material on the board and I have to deal with a possible mess after class and talking to a wall basically. Remember, this isn't elementary school where everyone must eat lunch during lunch hour.

 

[Cyrus]

Um... they probably have tried all of the above. If they did, they certainly wouldn't publish it like the article above. At this point, we don't know if they did or not, so it makes no sense to suggest ideas because they might have tried them.

I wouldn't risk being the first to break the rule if I work there as a professor. Depending on your position or reputation, they may just fire you for not adhering to the rules.

It's a simple rule. I don't see what the big deal is. Drinking and eating in class is a bad habit in my opinion and should have never started and we shouldn't just let people develop bad habits. We allow people develop bad habits much too often, especially in school.

Note: One of those habits is not finishing work on time and pushing the date back for the students. This whole idea should never have happened either. If there is a special case, the student should represent his problem individually and it should be dealt with only one individual. The rest of the class should just learn to respect that. It's becoming easier and easier to push teachers/professors around now, and it's no wonder they're losing respect from the students.

Note: I have classes that span the lunch hour. Classes are usually like an hour long. I'm not going to die of hunger waiting an hour. Plus, if I was a professor and had a class at lunch hour, I wouldn't want to see all my students eating food. They will probably lose their focus on the material on the board and I have to deal with a possible mess after class and talking to a wall basically. Remember, this isn't elementary school where everyone must eat lunch during lunch hour.

Maybe all this is true at your school, but not at my school. I think you are making a big leap and sticking your neck out with these statements Jason.

Over here, your assigment is due by the first 10 min of class, PERIOD. If you show up after that, you get a big fat zero, no questions asked...so I have no clue what your talking about.

 

[Gokul43201]

They (the students) had their chance - they blew it! Too bad. I've got no sympathy for them.

 

[JasonRox]

They (the students) had their chance - they blew it! Too bad. I've got no sympathy for them.

That's a good way to look at it.

 

[SpaceTiger]

If it were just meant as retribution, it would be better to introduce strict punishments for perpetrators rather than restrict the entire student body. I don't think it makes much sense to think of a large mass of students like a single disobedient child.

I don't remember ever bringing food or drink to class when I was at PSU, but it sucks that those responsible people who actually went to morning classes won't be able to have their coffee anymore. As an alum, I have more respect for a school that has respect for its students.

 

[Gokul43201]

As an alum, I have more respect for a school that has respect for its students.

In my book, people don't get respect for free - they have to earn it.

 

[SpaceTiger]

In my book, people don't get respect for free - they have to earn it.

From above:

"If it were just meant as retribution, it would be better to introduce strict punishments for perpetrators rather than restrict the entire student body. I don't think it makes much sense to think of a large mass of students like a single disobedient child."

 

[JasonRox]

From above:

"If it were just meant as retribution, it would be better to introduce strict punishments for perpetrators rather than restrict the entire student body. I don't think it makes much sense to think of a large mass of students like a single disobedient child."

I'd like to see you try and manage large amounts of people individually.

 

[SpaceTiger]

I'd like to see you try and manage large amounts of people individually.

Isn't this the job of police officers, security guards, computer support people, etc? Whether or not I could do it by myself is irrelevant to the conversation. Basically, the university had to choose between leaving things as they were, spending more money to keep the classrooms clean, spending more money to enforce individual rules, or restricting the students as a whole. All of the options have consequences, and that last option, which they selected, has the consequence of decreased morale within and respect from the student body.

 

[Moonbear]

Um... they probably have tried all of the above. If they did, they certainly wouldn't publish it like the article above. At this point, we don't know if they did or not, so it makes no sense to suggest ideas because they might have tried them.

Nothing in the article suggests they've even considered that option, just went from there's more trash on the floor to we're going to ban all food and drink.

I wouldn't risk being the first to break the rule if I work there as a professor. Depending on your position or reputation, they may just fire you for not adhering to the rules.

:rofl: It takes a little more than that to fire faculty. They are expecting the faculty to be the "enforcers" of this policy, and that's not what faculty are hired to do.

It's a simple rule. I don't see what the big deal is. Drinking and eating in class is a bad habit in my opinion and should have never started and we shouldn't just let people develop bad habits. We allow people develop bad habits much too often, especially in school.

Geez, did you go to Catholic school as a kid or something?

Note: One of those habits is not finishing work on time and pushing the date back for the students. This whole idea should never have happened either. If there is a special case, the student should represent his problem individually and it should be dealt with only one individual. The rest of the class should just learn to respect that. It's becoming easier and easier to push teachers/professors around now, and it's no wonder they're losing respect from the students.

That's up to the individual faculty how they want to run their class. The same would go for the eating and drinking rules. If individual faculty are bothered by students eating in their class, they can disallow it, but it doesn't mean that the administration should come in with some ridiculous rule that affects everyone even if it's not a problem in some classes.

Note: I have classes that span the lunch hour. Classes are usually like an hour long. I'm not going to die of hunger waiting an hour. Plus, if I was a professor and had a class at lunch hour, I wouldn't want to see all my students eating food. They will probably lose their focus on the material on the board and I have to deal with a possible mess after class and talking to a wall basically. Remember, this isn't elementary school where everyone must eat lunch during lunch hour.

You don't seem to understand the point. It's not about having one class for one hour from 12 to 1, it's about the people who have back-to-back classes from 8 AM to 3 PM with no chance for lunch. When I was in college, lectures were all 80 min long too, not just an hour, and when you had a course that was a double period, that meant 3 hours in a classroom. I don't know how long class periods are at Penn State. And, no, I find that students who are hungry and thinking about their next meal while their stomach is growling, or who are still half asleep and in need of coffee are the ones who don't focus on the lecture. Besides, it's not my job to make them pay attention, it's my job to offer the material. If they aren't able to sip a cup of coffee or eat a sandwich while taking notes, that's their problem; it's really not a difficult skill to master.

 

[Moonbear]

Isn't this the job of police officers, security guards, computer support people, etc? Whether or not I could do it by myself is irrelevant to the conversation.

In a way, it is relevant, and is part of the reason it's a ridiculous rule. They're expecting the faculty to do just that, prevent individual students from bringing food and beverages into a classroom. Should they inspect every bottle, cup and mug to make sure it contains water and not coffee or juice before class starts? Should the gum chewers be made to stand in the corner with their gum on their nose? When the entire class decides to protest the rule by showing up with Happy Meals, what exactly do they want the faculty to do about it? Are they going to disrupt lectures by sending in security guards to yank out the student who pulls out a bag of carrot sticks from their backpack halfway through the class period? If they are serious about this, it will cost more to enforce it than it would to just send custodians into clean more frequently during the day.

 

[SpaceTiger]

If they are serious about this, it will cost more to enforce it than it would to just send custodians into clean more frequently during the day.

I doubt that they expect 100% enforcement with a rule like this and, in fact, I'd be surprised if they spent any extra money to enforce it. Most likely, they'll just tell the professors to report or punish students caught eating in class and be done with it. The very existence of the rule and the few people that end up getting punished for it will likely deter many students from eating in class, decrease the janitorial load a significant amount, and save the university money. All the university has to do is make the rule, the burden is entirely on the professors and students.

 

[JasonRox]

In the end, they will forget about the ban by January.

 

[Moonbear]

So, I'm still left wondering, are the students there really such slobs that they leave behind that much trash after every class? Eating in class isn't the problem, it is that trash isn't being disposed at the end of class. If they only clean once a day, do they even know if it's a cumulative problem with all the classes, or that some groups using the rooms for non-class functions are the ones leaving behind big messes?

I don't know how it's handled there, but every other university I've been at has a contract for groups "renting" rooms for meetings or other functions, and that includes a fee for clean-up if it's not left in the same condition they found it (that includes rearranging furniture in addition to picking up trash). Groups had no problem assigning someone to clean-up detail to avoid the extra fee. Then all the custodians needed to do was run a vacuum or mop through the room, and it was ready for the next day's classes.

Did they even try just asking faculty to make an announcement before or after their lecture to remind students that the trash is becoming a problem and they should please use the receptacles provided? I'd rather do that than tell my students they can't eat or drink at all.

Unless that's the entire purpose, expecting that people will just treat it as "If you clean up after yourself, nobody will know you had food in the classroom." But, to approach it in the way they did, of just announcing no food or drink is the sort of thing that can very quickly backfire as students resent being treated like children, and when students learn it's not being enforced, if they're so inclined to be slobs, they're just going to keep doing what they've always been doing.

 

[SpaceTiger]

In the end, they will forget about the ban by January.

As concerns everyday life, that may be true, but things like this leave a bad taste in one's mouth. I didn't feel as if I suffered abysmal treatment as a PSU student, but I still remember the things that irked me about the university. If I were rich, they wouldn't want me to be irked.

 

[JasonRox]

So, I'm still left wondering, are the students there really such slobs that they leave behind that much trash after every class? Eating in class isn't the problem, it is that trash isn't being disposed at the end of class. If they only clean once a day, do they even know if it's a cumulative problem with all the classes, or that some groups using the rooms for non-class functions are the ones leaving behind big messes?

I don't know how it's handled there, but every other university I've been at has a contract for groups "renting" rooms for meetings or other functions, and that includes a fee for clean-up if it's not left in the same condition they found it (that includes rearranging furniture in addition to picking up trash). Groups had no problem assigning someone to clean-up detail to avoid the extra fee. Then all the custodians needed to do was run a vacuum or mop through the room, and it was ready for the next day's classes.

Did they even try just asking faculty to make an announcement before or after their lecture to remind students that the trash is becoming a problem and they should please use the receptacles provided? I'd rather do that than tell my students they can't eat or drink at all.

Unless that's the entire purpose, expecting that people will just treat it as "If you clean up after yourself, nobody will know you had food in the classroom." But, to approach it in the way they did, of just announcing no food or drink is the sort of thing that can very quickly backfire as students resent being treated like children, and when students learn it's not being enforced, if they're so inclined to be slobs, they're just going to keep doing what they've always been doing.

Our school isn't too dirty (as Penn State apparently).

It seems like in our school that no one chooses to eat in class. Maybe because they feel they are disrespecting the professors. Our school is very easy on the students, and personally it's becoming a problem. You can easily get a professor to push back a due date sometimes. That should be a rare scenario. Also, we can eat in the library! I haven't seen any bad messes in the library yet though.

Believe it or not, I'm fine with eating in the library. (Only small snackes. Nothing like french fries and things, which we aren't allowed.) It's eating right in front of other people that bothers me, like the professor and fellow students. In the library booth no one can see you, in fact I rarely see anyone eat in the library. I normally just see coffee and water.

 

[Gokul43201]

"If it were just meant as retribution, it would be better to introduce strict punishments for perpetrators rather than restrict the entire student body.

What would you do? Hire "classroom cops" to impose spot fines on violators? Sometimes you got to deal with large bodies of people with restrictions against frequently abused freedoms. That's just the natural result of a finite budget.

Maybe there is a solution that's cheap and doesn't punish everyone, but that's not what I'm expressing an opinion about. I'm merely stating that I don't feel particularly sorry for the student body as a whole...nor even particularly sorry for the innocents that are caught in the crossfire - what's it hurt to have to eat after you're done with class?

Now the on-campus alcohol ban that's been in place in PSU since donkey's years - that's something to agitate against! :tongue2:

 

[Gokul43201]

So, I'm still left wondering, are the students there really such slobs that they leave behind that much trash after every class? Eating in class isn't the problem, it is that trash isn't being disposed at the end of class. If they only clean once a day, do they even know if it's a cumulative problem with all the classes, or that some groups using the rooms for non-class functions are the ones leaving behind big messes?

Surely, the people who've spent the last few days deciding how to deal with the problem would have noticed if all the trash bins were overfilled before the end of the day or who was causing the mess!

Also, I don't know what the classrooms are like at PSU, but here, the trash cans are outside the classrooms/lecture halls, in the hallways. If you took food into class, you'd still have to carry out the trash to chuck it in a bin. If litter was accumulating in the classrooms, it would mean that you weren't bothering to pick up after yourself.

 

[Pythagorean]

1)It's becoming easier and easier to push teachers/professors around now, and it's no wonder they're losing respect from the students.

2)Note: I have classes that span the lunch hour. Classes are usually like an hour long. I'm not going to die of hunger waiting an hour.

(numbering added)

1) I agree, it's an overcorrection from the times (not too long ago at all) where they slapped kids on the hand for using their left hand. But at the same time, I'm glad kids aren't getting slapped, spanked, or lectured about their personal life anymore. Teacher's are like police men, they have an authoritative position on one hand, but on the other they are servants, and if they don't like that aspect of providing a service (that they get paid for), they shouldn't be doing it. That being said, every teacher choses how much respect he will get from his students by their reputation, their first impressions, and their attitude throughout the year. If teacher's aren't respected, they aren't respectable teachers (or they've suffered a severe misunderstanding, which should be handled case by case).

2) Hunger is a distraction. Dying isn't the problem here, it's the symptoms that come from hunger. Unless a student is still riding their parent's gravy train, they're probably working while they're schooling and don't have the time to eat at their leisure. Eating in class is excellent time management for people in these positions.

I work while schooling. I also can't afford to eat out so I have to actually cook my food and do my dishes. I have to do laundry and go grocery shopping, and tons of other little random annoying "mom's not here anymore" tasks. I value being able to eat during classes.

And hunger is not a good learning aid.

 

[JasonRox]

(numbering added)

1) I agree, it's an overcorrection from the times (not too long ago at all) where they slapped kids on the hand for using their left hand. But at the same time, I'm glad kids aren't getting slapped, spanked, or lectured about their personal life anymore. Teacher's are like police men, they have an authoritative position on one hand, but on the other they are servants, and if they don't like that aspect of providing a service (that they get paid for), they shouldn't be doing it. That being said, every teacher choses how much respect he will get from his students by their reputation, their first impressions, and their attitude throughout the year. If teacher's aren't respected, they aren't respectable teachers (or they've suffered a severe misunderstanding, which should be handled case by case).

2) Hunger is a distraction. Dying isn't the problem here, it's the symptoms that come from hunger. Unless a student is still riding their parent's gravy train, they're probably working while they're schooling and don't have the time to eat at their leisure. Eating in class is excellent time management for people in these positions.

I work while schooling. I also can't afford to eat out so I have to actually cook my food and do my dishes. I have to do laundry and go grocery shopping, and tons of other little random annoying "mom's not here anymore" tasks. I value being able to eat during classes.

And hunger is not a good learning aid.

I work during school and I don't see the difference. I bring my lunch too.

 

[J77]

They should just have a coffee in the morning - no need for it during lectures.

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/8986/nofoodnodrinksignnew1bl8.gif

 

[Moonbear]

JUST have coffee in the morning?! I'll never understand morning people.