I'm feeling sorry for the Penn Staters

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  • #26
JasonRox
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In the end, they will forget about the ban by January.
 
  • #27
Moonbear
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So, I'm still left wondering, are the students there really such slobs that they leave behind that much trash after every class? Eating in class isn't the problem, it is that trash isn't being disposed at the end of class. If they only clean once a day, do they even know if it's a cumulative problem with all the classes, or that some groups using the rooms for non-class functions are the ones leaving behind big messes?

I don't know how it's handled there, but every other university I've been at has a contract for groups "renting" rooms for meetings or other functions, and that includes a fee for clean-up if it's not left in the same condition they found it (that includes rearranging furniture in addition to picking up trash). Groups had no problem assigning someone to clean-up detail to avoid the extra fee. Then all the custodians needed to do was run a vacuum or mop through the room, and it was ready for the next day's classes.

Did they even try just asking faculty to make an announcement before or after their lecture to remind students that the trash is becoming a problem and they should please use the receptacles provided? I'd rather do that than tell my students they can't eat or drink at all.

Unless that's the entire purpose, expecting that people will just treat it as "If you clean up after yourself, nobody will know you had food in the classroom." But, to approach it in the way they did, of just announcing no food or drink is the sort of thing that can very quickly backfire as students resent being treated like children, and when students learn it's not being enforced, if they're so inclined to be slobs, they're just going to keep doing what they've always been doing.
 
  • #28
SpaceTiger
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JasonRox said:
In the end, they will forget about the ban by January.
As concerns everyday life, that may be true, but things like this leave a bad taste in one's mouth. I didn't feel as if I suffered abysmal treatment as a PSU student, but I still remember the things that irked me about the university. If I were rich, they wouldn't want me to be irked. :wink:
 
  • #29
JasonRox
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Moonbear said:
So, I'm still left wondering, are the students there really such slobs that they leave behind that much trash after every class? Eating in class isn't the problem, it is that trash isn't being disposed at the end of class. If they only clean once a day, do they even know if it's a cumulative problem with all the classes, or that some groups using the rooms for non-class functions are the ones leaving behind big messes?

I don't know how it's handled there, but every other university I've been at has a contract for groups "renting" rooms for meetings or other functions, and that includes a fee for clean-up if it's not left in the same condition they found it (that includes rearranging furniture in addition to picking up trash). Groups had no problem assigning someone to clean-up detail to avoid the extra fee. Then all the custodians needed to do was run a vacuum or mop through the room, and it was ready for the next day's classes.

Did they even try just asking faculty to make an announcement before or after their lecture to remind students that the trash is becoming a problem and they should please use the receptacles provided? I'd rather do that than tell my students they can't eat or drink at all.

Unless that's the entire purpose, expecting that people will just treat it as "If you clean up after yourself, nobody will know you had food in the classroom." But, to approach it in the way they did, of just announcing no food or drink is the sort of thing that can very quickly backfire as students resent being treated like children, and when students learn it's not being enforced, if they're so inclined to be slobs, they're just going to keep doing what they've always been doing.
Our school isn't too dirty (as Penn State apparently).

It seems like in our school that no one chooses to eat in class. Maybe because they feel they are disrespecting the professors. Our school is very easy on the students, and personally it's becoming a problem. You can easily get a professor to push back a due date sometimes. That should be a rare scenario. Also, we can eat in the library!!! I haven't seen any bad messes in the library yet though.

Believe it or not, I'm fine with eating in the library. (Only small snackes. Nothing like french fries and things, which we aren't allowed.) It's eating right in front of other people that bothers me, like the professor and fellow students. In the library booth no one can see you, in fact I rarely see anyone eat in the library. I normally just see coffee and water.
 
  • #30
Gokul43201
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SpaceTiger said:
"If it were just meant as retribution, it would be better to introduce strict punishments for perpetrators rather than restrict the entire student body.
What would you do? Hire "classroom cops" to impose spot fines on violators? Sometimes you gotta deal with large bodies of people with restrictions against frequently abused freedoms. That's just the natural result of a finite budget.

Maybe there is a solution that's cheap and doesn't punish everyone, but that's not what I'm expressing an opinion about. I'm merely stating that I don't feel particularly sorry for the student body as a whole...nor even particularly sorry for the innocents that are caught in the crossfire - what's it hurt to have to eat after you're done with class?

Now the on-campus alcohol ban that's been in place in PSU since donkey's years - that's something to agitate against! :tongue2:
 
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  • #31
Gokul43201
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Moonbear said:
So, I'm still left wondering, are the students there really such slobs that they leave behind that much trash after every class? Eating in class isn't the problem, it is that trash isn't being disposed at the end of class. If they only clean once a day, do they even know if it's a cumulative problem with all the classes, or that some groups using the rooms for non-class functions are the ones leaving behind big messes?
Surely, the people who've spent the last few days deciding how to deal with the problem would have noticed if all the trash bins were overfilled before the end of the day or who was causing the mess!

Also, I don't know what the classrooms are like at PSU, but here, the trash cans are outside the classrooms/lecture halls, in the hallways. If you took food into class, you'd still have to carry out the trash to chuck it in a bin. If litter was accumulating in the classrooms, it would mean that you weren't bothering to pick up after yourself.
 
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  • #32
Pythagorean
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JasonRox said:
1)It's becoming easier and easier to push teachers/professors around now, and it's no wonder they're losing respect from the students.

2)Note: I have classes that span the lunch hour. Classes are usually like an hour long. I'm not going to die of hunger waiting an hour.
(numbering added)

1) I agree, it's an overcorrection from the times (not too long ago at all) where they slapped kids on the hand for using their left hand. But at the same time, I'm glad kids aren't getting slapped, spanked, or lectured about their personal life anymore. Teacher's are like police men, they have an authoritative position on one hand, but on the other they are servants, and if they don't like that aspect of providing a service (that they get paid for), they shouldn't be doing it. That being said, every teacher choses how much respect he will get from his students by their reputation, their first impressions, and their attitude throughout the year. If teacher's aren't respected, they aren't respectable teachers (or they've suffered a severe misunderstanding, which should be handled case by case).

2) Hunger is a distraction. Dying isn't the problem here, it's the symptoms that come from hunger. Unless a student is still riding their parent's gravy train, they're probably working while they're schooling and don't have the time to eat at their leisure. Eating in class is excellent time management for people in these positions.

I work while schooling. I also can't afford to eat out so I have to actually cook my food and do my dishes. I have to do laundry and go grocery shopping, and tons of other little random annoying "mom's not here anymore" tasks. I value being able to eat during classes.

And hunger is not a good learning aid.
 
  • #33
JasonRox
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Pythagorean said:
(numbering added)

1) I agree, it's an overcorrection from the times (not too long ago at all) where they slapped kids on the hand for using their left hand. But at the same time, I'm glad kids aren't getting slapped, spanked, or lectured about their personal life anymore. Teacher's are like police men, they have an authoritative position on one hand, but on the other they are servants, and if they don't like that aspect of providing a service (that they get paid for), they shouldn't be doing it. That being said, every teacher choses how much respect he will get from his students by their reputation, their first impressions, and their attitude throughout the year. If teacher's aren't respected, they aren't respectable teachers (or they've suffered a severe misunderstanding, which should be handled case by case).

2) Hunger is a distraction. Dying isn't the problem here, it's the symptoms that come from hunger. Unless a student is still riding their parent's gravy train, they're probably working while they're schooling and don't have the time to eat at their leisure. Eating in class is excellent time management for people in these positions.

I work while schooling. I also can't afford to eat out so I have to actually cook my food and do my dishes. I have to do laundry and go grocery shopping, and tons of other little random annoying "mom's not here anymore" tasks. I value being able to eat during classes.

And hunger is not a good learning aid.
I work during school and I don't see the difference. I bring my lunch too.
 
  • #34
J77
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They should just have a coffee in the morning - no need for it during lectures.

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/8986/nofoodnodrinksignnew1bl8.gif [Broken]
 
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  • #35
Moonbear
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JUST have coffee in the morning?! :surprised I'll never understand morning people. :rolleyes:
 
  • #36
SpaceTiger
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Gokul43201 said:
What would you do? Hire "classroom cops" to impose spot fines on violators?
No, I think they should foot the bill for clean-up, like they've always done. I'd be curious to see the numbers behind their "epidemic of garbage" hyperbole. The article only gives the cost for a single year.


Sometimes you gotta deal with large bodies of people with restrictions against frequently abused freedoms. That's just the natural result of a finite budget.
They by no means have to restrict this particular freedom. Dealing with a finite budget is ultimately a question of priorities, and this move states very clearly what their priorities are.
 
  • #37
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Moonbear said:
JUST have coffee in the morning?! :surprised I'll never understand morning people. :rolleyes:
I don't drink coffee. They say an apple is better than coffe anyway.

Luckily, our campus allows eating/drinking during class. We've never had a problem with it, except when we get a ridiculously high flux of freshmen. But most of the upperclassmen (like msyelf) will pick up after them.
 
  • #38
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Wow, that really sucks! Penn State is one of the graduate schools I am looking at for Fall '07. Looks like I'll have to take no coffee in the mornings into consideration when I review the school!
 
  • #39
JasonRox
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Maxwell said:
Wow, that really sucks! Penn State is one of the graduate schools I am looking at for Fall '07. Looks like I'll have to take no coffee in the mornings into consideration when I review the school!
I doubt this stands for Graduate Students. Maybe it does, but it normally seems like Graduate Students do whatever they want.
 

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