In proving that the Lagrange equations hold in any coordinate system

In summary, the conversation discusses how to prove Lagrange's equations in any coordinate system, including those that change with time. The process involves using chain rule and examining L(x^A, \dot{x^A}) when x^A is substituted in terms of q_a and t. The question at the end asks about the origin of q_b in the partial derivative of x^A.
  • #1
M. next
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I was checking the proof of this, when things came vague at one point.

It goes as follows, how to prove that Lagrange's equations hold in any coordinate system?

Answer:

Let q[itex]_{a}[/itex] = q[itex]_{a}[/itex](x[itex]_{1}[/itex],..., x[itex]_{3N}[/itex], t)

here the possibility of using a coordinate system that changes with time is included.

By chain rule: [itex]\dot{q_{a}}[/itex]= [itex]\partial[/itex]q[itex]_{a}[/itex]/[itex]\partial[/itex]x[itex]^{A}[/itex]([itex]\dot{x^{A}}[/itex]) + [itex]\partial[/itex]q[itex]_{a}[/itex]/[itex]\partial[/itex]t

To be in a good coordinate system, we should be able to invert this relationship, call this equation (1):

[itex]\dot{x_{a}}[/itex]= [itex]\partial[/itex]x[itex]_{a}[/itex]/[itex]\partial[/itex]q[itex]^{A}[/itex]([itex]\dot{q^{A}}[/itex]) + [itex]\partial[/itex]x[itex]_{a}[/itex]/[itex]\partial[/itex]t



Then the book said, now we can examine L(x[itex]^{A}[/itex], [itex]\dot{x^{A}}[/itex]) when we substitute in x[itex]^{A}[/itex](q[itex]_{a}[/itex], t)

Using (1), we have

[itex]\partial[/itex]L/[itex]\partial[/itex]q[itex]_{a}[/itex] =

([itex]\partial[/itex]L/[itex]\partial[/itex]x[itex]^{A}[/itex])([itex]\partial[/itex]x[itex]^{A}[/itex]/[itex]\partial[/itex]q[itex]_{a}[/itex]) + [itex]\partial[/itex]L/[itex]\partial[/itex][itex]\dot{x^{A}}[/itex]([itex]\partial[/itex][itex]^{2}[/itex]x[itex]^{A}[/itex]/[itex]\partial[/itex]q[itex]_{a}[/itex]q[itex]_{b}[/itex]*[itex]\dot{q_{b}}[/itex] + [itex]\partial[/itex][itex]^{2}[/itex]x[itex]^{A}[/itex]/[itex]\partial[/itex]q[itex]_{t}[/itex]q[itex]_{a}[/itex])

My question is I don't understand where the q[itex]_{b}[/itex] come from??

Thank you for your time!
 
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  • #2
The q_b comes from the fact that the partial derivative of x^A with respect to q_a and q_b is a second-order partial derivative, which means that it depends on both q_a and q_b. This is because, in order for x^A to change, not only must q_a change (which is what the first partial derivative accounts for), but also q_b must change as well.
 

1. What are the Lagrange equations?

The Lagrange equations are a set of equations used in classical mechanics to describe the motion of a system. They are based on the principle of least action, which states that the true path of a system between two points is the one that minimizes the action, a quantity related to the system's energy.

2. Why is it important to prove that the Lagrange equations hold in any coordinate system?

Proving that the Lagrange equations hold in any coordinate system is important because it allows us to use these equations in various coordinate systems, making it easier to analyze and describe the motion of a system. This also allows for a more unified approach to solving problems in classical mechanics.

3. How do you prove that the Lagrange equations hold in any coordinate system?

To prove that the Lagrange equations hold in any coordinate system, one must use a mathematical technique called the calculus of variations. This involves finding the path of a system that minimizes the action, and then using the Euler-Lagrange equation to derive the Lagrange equations in the given coordinate system.

4. What are the benefits of using the Lagrange equations in various coordinate systems?

Using the Lagrange equations in various coordinate systems allows for a more flexible and comprehensive approach to solving problems in classical mechanics. It also allows for a deeper understanding of the underlying principles and relationships between physical quantities in different coordinate systems.

5. Are there any limitations to the Lagrange equations in different coordinate systems?

While the Lagrange equations are generally applicable in any coordinate system, there may be some limitations in certain cases. For example, if the system has non-conservative forces or if the coordinates are not continuous, the Lagrange equations may not hold. In these cases, alternative methods may need to be used to describe the system's motion.

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