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In this ever more dangerous world can you defend your self ?

  1. Sep 21, 2005 #1

    wolram

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    In this ever more dangerous world can you defend your self ? In the UK it is
    illegal to carry an offensive weapon of any kind, so i think it would be lucky
    to escape a gang of thugs.
    What are your ideas on getting out of such situations ?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Sep 21, 2005 #2

    honestrosewater

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    I used to watch Big Cat Diary, a show following lions, leopards, and cheetahs in Kenya. Every once in a while, the prey that the cats were hunting didn't run away. The cats got right up next to it but didn't attack. They were so confused by the prey not running that they didn't know what to do. :wink:

    Eh, but of course, as soon as the prey tried to leave, it got eaten. :redface: So maybe you should just run like 'ell in the first place.
     
  4. Sep 21, 2005 #3
    Are you talking specifically against gangs rather than one or two people? Gangs are tough, not just because of the numbers, but because no one member wants to be seen to be backing off by the others. It's something I think about a lot. I've yet to conceive of a foolproof strategy other than get in there and hope for the best.
     
  5. Sep 21, 2005 #4

    wolram

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    Yes gangs are my main target of discussion, some members of these gangs can be as young as 12 upwards, but if there is enough of them defense is difficult
    with out a weapon, is there any thing that could be used and not classed as
    offensive ?
     
  6. Sep 21, 2005 #5
    Isn't the best strategy usually to target the leader?
     
  7. Sep 21, 2005 #6
    With the younger ones it's not so bad, because most of them will never have seen real violence. Grab the nearest one or whichever one has the most formidable looking weapon and punch him repeatedly in the face. It'll scare the bejesus out of the others (most times).

    Older ones, especially proper gangs, it's pretty much a lose-lose situation. Just don't die, is the best advice. Best weapons are your head, your fists, your elbows and your frenzy. There's a reason why real fights only last a few seconds. Unless you're dealing with real hardnuts, they won't get back up after an elbow in the teeth, or double-tap headbutt on the nose. But ultimately, if there's enough of them and/or they're proper rough, you're screwed either way. Putting up a fight can get you mashed. Sometimes not putting up a fight can get you mashed. There's something to be said for running away at these times.
     
  8. Sep 21, 2005 #7
    As an addendum to the above, bear in mind that the people most desperate to start a fight are those with the most to prove, and so the most inexperienced at fighting. I point this out because I once made the mistake of getting into a scuffle with such a person and, because he wasn't going all-out (he was afraid), I didn't either. This is wrong. REALLY wrong. The reason being that as the fight progressed, he got more and more vicious. He was always ahead of me because he was always slightly more desperate than me. As a result, my nose ended up between his teeth and you can probably imagine how much scarier that is than being the first to get vicious. Unless you're martial arts experts or boxers or something, it shouldn't last any longer than 30 seconds, a minute tops. Any longer than that (if you're acting in self-defense, at least in the UK) and odds are you're not prepared for the worst. So... 'be the worst' is the moral. Or better still, be somewhere else.
     
  9. Sep 21, 2005 #8

    wolram

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    What about chemical defence, Mace or some such ? i'm not even sure that is
    legal in the uk, but would it give a chance of escape from a gang ?
     
  10. Sep 21, 2005 #9
    If you can't or won't fight, then it's all the better reason to be fit. Run away. It's OK to be called a name and still have all your teeth or more importantly, your life. My only exception to this rule would be if somone needed defending.
     
  11. Sep 21, 2005 #10
    Nah I know mace won't do anything if they're in a huge group. Mace will help you out if it is maybe a 1 on 1 or 2 on 1 situation, but if it's a gang you can only get so many people and I'm sure their friends would be pissed. Basically if anyone is in this sort of situation all I can say is that you're screwed unless you run away or someone can help. The only chances for help are if there is a group of people passing by or maybe a person in a car...maybe. I've heard people say that it is disgraceful how ONE person didn't help some guy out when he was beaten up by a group of 12 people. About the only thing you can do in that situation is phone the police (which is what that person apparently did in that situation), unless you want to be in a wheelchair yourself. It's just something that you have to hope doesn't ever happen to you because there is no chance of defending yourself.

    Edit: Well actually I guess one person could also help if they yelled out to draw the group away, but yeah you can't guarantee that you're faster than them or that they wouldn't return to beat that other person afterwards. But it's something that should be on everyone's mind because you need to have an idea of the possibilities and solutions to that sort of predicament.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2005
  12. Sep 21, 2005 #11

    EnumaElish

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    Just don't do nothing. Keep your "cool" as long and as much as humanly possible.

    Carry a fake wallet stuffed with a few bills maybe, throw it to them and run like hell?

    Years ago, a foreigner in Germany was surrounded by a violent-looking skinhead gang. He had been carrying a bottle in his briefcase (probably because he expected this to happen sometime). He took the bottle out, broke it on the pavement, and waited. They left him probably shaking but otherwise healthy as before.
     
  13. Sep 21, 2005 #12
    Mace is illegal to use as a weapon in the UK. Women are advised in self-defense courses to carry cayenne pepper and claim they'd just bought it and didn't keep the receipt if grilled by the cops. Don't see why that couldn't work for us too, though like big_man said, it's not much of a defense against gangs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2005
  14. Sep 21, 2005 #13

    EnumaElish

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    What about taser? ("You guys heard about the new twitch dance? Yeah, first one of you moves gets to twitch dance on the sidewalk.")
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2005
  15. Sep 21, 2005 #14
    It's spelled "defense", btw.
     
  16. Sep 21, 2005 #15
    UK is truly becoming Orwellian state.
     
  17. Sep 21, 2005 #16
    Easiest thing to do is not provoke the gangs and just keep walking. I find that the gangs of little kids run away as soon as you threaten them but the older gangs tend to leave people alone unless the are troubling them.
     
  18. Sep 21, 2005 #17
    Somehow I don't think Wolram is asking for advice on how to win a fight he's started with a gang. Hence the use of the word 'defense'.
     
  19. Sep 21, 2005 #18

    Astronuc

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    Perhaps one should avoid areas where gangs frequent.
     
  20. Sep 21, 2005 #19
    The chances of being attacked by a gang aren't particularly that high, don't get the wrong idea about Blighty. But it's a big enough problem to warrant some thought. I think 'not provoking them' and 'avoiding rough areas' are givens. In fact, from that Wolram is even asking the question you can infer he's probably already adhering to both of those particular golden rules. That doesn't eliminate the possibility though. No matter where you are or how you behave, it can still happen, and a good defense strategy would be a handy thing to have. This is made more difficult by our stupid police service that gets far more turned on by some guy knifing his attacker than by some guy knifing his victim. The only weapons you can use are those not intended for such use. Personally, I always carry a pen.
     
  21. Sep 21, 2005 #20
    Prompted by citizen complaints, police in my neighborhood cracked down hard on gangs. There is a 10 P.M. curfew in effect for anyone under 18, and there is a limit on how many teenagers can be seen loitering anywhere. It's small, only two or three. You can call the cops any time you see a group of gangster looking kids walking together, also.
     
  22. Sep 21, 2005 #21
    Funny... I live in and around area known for gangs and gang activity but have never had a problem. Most of the gangbangers and skinheads around here are just posers. The only ones that are a legitimate worry most likely wouldn't mess with you unless you have put yourself in a bad situation. Around here the Mexican gangs and the Asian gangs are the craziest. The asians, in the right neighborhood, will shoot up a place or stab someone at the drop of a hat. Fortunately they usually only gun for other asian gangs so all you have to do is stay away from the places they hang out at. The Latino gangs aren't generally that much of a worry unless they are out getting drunk, then they have a tendancy to do stupid and crazy things like running through a mosh pit at a concert with a knife slashing at random people. Most Latino gangbanger types that I have come across though were really nice to me.
    Here in the city where I work there are black gangs but most of them are only about having the apearance of being tough. Mostly the same with Skinheads too. Skinheads are easy targets for the police because very rarely does anyone dress like one unless they are in a skinhead gang so they tend to keep a low profile around here. They're worrisome if they are drunk or on drugs but most likely their friends will be holding them back because they don't want anyone going to jail.
    When you're actually in L.A. it's all quite differant though. Best to just stay away from most of the places in L.A..
     
  23. Sep 21, 2005 #22
    Alot of California gangs seem mostly to be about drug sales. They don't randomly harrass potential customers.
     
  24. Sep 21, 2005 #23
    It depends on the area. In quite a few areas there is so much violence that kids wind up in gangs or forming "crews" just so they can be sure they have people to back them up in a fight. Most of the skinheads, or ex skinheads really, I have met were never even racist but joined the gangs because they were being harassed then got out shortly after graduating high school.
    Since I have been working here there have been a few scuffles between "crews" but only one real gang situation, involving drugs most likely. Oddly the kid, who lived on campus, was shot somewhere in the city I live in and not around here.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2005
  25. Sep 21, 2005 #24
    Well in comparison to some of the cities other PFers are from Ottawa is quite safe. Having said that...in grade 9 my friend and I almost got jumped (I say almost because we got away).

    We were walking back to his place from the video store, and on the way back these 3 asians were following us....they looked about 18 or 19 (we were 14 at the time) and they were pretty big, but we thought nothing of it.

    Then one of them tripped my friend, and we were wondering what they were doing. So we decided to cut through a parking lot of a strip mall so that maybe they would continue the way we were going originally. Nope....they started walking after us...matching our pace. So we decided to run...and being stupid gr 9's, we ran through a fence into a neighborhood behind the main road where there is nobody around.

    We look back and they're running now. (BTW this was winter and it's difficult to run in deep snow so we were pretty damn scared) so we're running...and they're yelling at us to stop and that they just wanna talk and al lthat b.s. We finally came to another hole in the fence farther down whcih took us into a parking lot, where we ran into KFC and hid behind the vending machine (lol, you should have seen the look on the person at KFC :rofl: ) We looked out the window and we saw the 3 guys looking under cars and stuff....scary. After about 20 mins we left...and walked back to my friends house VERY JUMPY..constantly looking over our shoulders.
     
  26. Sep 21, 2005 #25

    EnumaElish

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    The police's attitude that was described above is very strange. I wonder whether the bobbies show the same "sensitivity" over rape/sexual assault cases. Probably women are the victims of street violence by a far wider margin compared to men. Not that men can't be victimized, of course.
     
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