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Indoor vs Outdoor Cat Debate: split from derailed thread

  1. Mar 25, 2006 #1
    Dressing your cats is stupid. Its like putting a collar on them. I'd like to put a collar around your neck that rings all day long. :grumpy: Cats have fur for a reason people.

    Moderator note: This topic has been split from the "if I start dressing up my cat, shoot me" thread since we pretty well derailed it. ~Moonbear
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 26, 2006
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  3. Mar 25, 2006 #2

    Alkatran

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    You put a collar (hopefully with ID) on animals so they don't get confused for a stray. Now, EXPENSIVE collars...
     
  4. Mar 25, 2006 #3
    Depends. My cat never had a collar with an ID. We used to let her out. She could go around town if she wanted for all we care. She always came back home. Cat's don't go 'stray,' dogs do.
     
  5. Mar 25, 2006 #4

    Moonbear

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    I really object to people letting their cats out to roam the neighborhood. Your neighbors who don't own or want cats don't appreciate them using their yard for litter boxes. :grumpy: Plus, they're destructive to the local wildlife (that's a BIG reason I HATED when the neighbors let their cats roam...they would come in MY yard and scare the birds away that I want to enjoy, and they killed the chipmunk that I was happy to let live in my yard. :mad:) It also means they get exposed to other cats and feline diseases, pick up more parasites, chance getting run over by cars, and all sorts of other injuries. If you take the responsibility of adopting a pet, you should care for the pet and not leave it to fend for itself outdoors. And, if I saw a cat without a collar, I DID call to have them picked up as strays (we did have quite a few strays in addition to the pets...probably because the non-neutered pets were allowed to roam too).
     
  6. Mar 25, 2006 #5
    Well, my neighbors had no problems with my cat. She didn't go around killing chipmunks either, we don't have any here. Cat's can fend for themselves. Sometimes she would get into fights with the other cats, but they would just make more noise than anything else. No one called to have cat's taken away where I lived. Our neighbor’s were good enough people to feed any cat's they saw and treat them nice. What do you think cats do moonbear, live indoors all day long? That's like having a bird and keeping it in a cage. Pointless. They don't get parasites either. You check them and take them to the vet. :rolleyes:

    cat's don’t use the yard as litter boxes, they dig holes do their business and burry it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2006
  7. Mar 25, 2006 #6

    Moonbear

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    Not all cats bury very well. But, yes, cats that are pets should be kept indoors. If your home is too small to keep them indoors, then you just shouldn't get a cat as a pet. It's no different than getting a dog as a pet if you don't have room for it to run around your home or yard...you just shouldn't. If you need to impose your pets upon your neighbors, you just shouldn't have that pet.
     
  8. Mar 26, 2006 #7
    Well then moonbear, I disagree with you. An animal is not a toy you keep locked up inside your house. If your house is that small, then yes, you should not have a cat. You are right. I am not imposing my cat on my neighbors, nor do their cats impose on my yard. You seem to forget the cats creed. Sleep all day, go out all night.
     
  9. Mar 26, 2006 #8

    Moonbear

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    Of course a cat is not a toy, that's why I think people should care more about them when they own them than to just toss them outside with no idea where they are going or who they are bothering. I find it to be an imposition to find cat feces in my flower beds when I'm gardening, or to smell that from under my window, or to hear the cats meowing loudly when they are fighting or mating or whatever the heck they're screaming about on my front lawn at 3 or 4 AM as I'm trying to fall asleep on a summer night when I want to keep the windows open for fresh air. If a cat owner doesn't want to take care of their cats, and those cats wind up in my yard, then I'll set the have-a-heart traps and take them to the shelter where someone can adopt them who will care.
     
  10. Mar 26, 2006 #9
    Toss them outside? :uhh:

    My cat would jump on the bed, claw at the window begging to go outside at night. They are called night animals for a reason you know. :rolleyes:

    But you have no problems with cow feces? :rolleyes:


    Unless you have a litter of kittens taking a crap under your window, that's just sensationalism. :uhh:

    My cat took a dump in the house in her litter box, because she preferred it, and it did not smell. I highly doubt you could smell anything from your window from one cat.

    Because we all know cat's meow and fight for hours on end keeping us up. :rolleyes:

    They get into a little fuss with eachother for what, a whole half minute?


    If you want to have a heart, leave it a can of cat food and some water. You will have a nice new friend that will make you happy. :smile:
     
  11. Mar 26, 2006 #10

    Moonbear

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    I don't have random cows wandering into my lawn, do you? Cattle don't stink nearly as badly as cats though.

    Besides, what if your cat is crapping in the yard of a pregnant woman?
    http://health.yahoo.com/topic/pregnancy/healthyhabits/article/noahnet/pregnancy_bby_cat_litter
    As for all your other claims, sorry, but that's all from experience...and it's not just one cat, but a whole neighborhood worth of cats. Yes, they howl for hours for nights in a row (probably mating), and their crap STINKS. See, what you seem to forget is when they defecate in their litter box, you generally clean that quickly, but when it's accumulating outside under a window, and you don't discover it until spring when you open the windows, it's a LOT of stink. And when they've decided that's a good place to keep returning, it doesn't go away. Do you ask random neighbors to clean your litterboxes for you? If you wouldn't do that, why would you expect to turn their yards into litterboxes?

    Actually, you know what, you seem to know so little of what the cats are actually doing when they are out of your care that I'm even more doubting how responsible of a cat owner you could be. I guess it's much easier to just let them make their ruckus and mess in other people's yards than to provide a healthy environment for them in your own home. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2006
  12. Mar 26, 2006 #11

    Really? What is that called, oh yeah organic fertilizer?


    From your link:

    If you do that, your pretty stupid.

    Wow, seems like common sense to me. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2006
  13. Mar 26, 2006 #12

    Moonbear

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    And that's already composted, it's not the raw cow flops. Believe me, you wouldn't want those in your lawn either.
     
  14. Mar 26, 2006 #13

    Moonbear

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    And even more common sense to me sounds like keeping your cats out of other people's yards.

    http://www.hsus.org/press_and_publications/humane_society_magazines_and_newsletters/all_animals/volume_4_issue_1_spring_2002/a_safe_cat_is_a_happy_cat_and_your_cat_is_only_safe_indoors.html [Broken]

    http://www.sspca.org/Cats_IndoorOutdoor.html [Broken]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  15. Mar 26, 2006 #14
    According to that, YOU are a danger to my cat!! :eek:
     
  16. Mar 26, 2006 #15
    If you are having major problems with cats using places that you don't want them to use there are two solutions that will make them go elsewhere. You can get those humane anti-bird roosting strips (the ones that are plastic spikes) and semi bury them so there is about two to three inches of plastic sticking above the ground. Or get some monofillimant fishing line and make a grid over the area again about two to three inches above the ground. Both of these measures make it so the cat has a hard time squatting, therefore they will go do there business elsewhere.
     
  17. Mar 26, 2006 #16
    slingshots work pretty well too
     
  18. Mar 26, 2006 #17

    Moonbear

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    How about all my cat "owning" neighbors pay for that and the clean-up?

    Cyrus, I'm not a threat to your cat, I would never harm a cat as punishment for the owner's lack of caring. I am a threat to your cat returning home to you though, because, like I said, if it's roaming around uncared for, I'm going to drop it off at the nearest shelter to find someone else better able and willing to care for it. If you really love your cat, keep it indoors, or build an outdoor enclosure it cannot escape from if you want to allow it outside from time to time...and supervise it when it is outside.

    And, according to this, domestic cats are not just a thread to songbird populations, but also to the natural predators of those songbirds that have to compete with domestic cats for their food supply.
    http://www.wnrmag.com/stories/1996/dec96/cats.htm
     
  19. Mar 26, 2006 #18

    Moonbear

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    And what does that do to birds? Wouldn't birds get caught up in the monofilament? I WANT to enjoy the wild birds that are attracted to my gardens, I don't want cat urine killing my plants, or having them digging up the garden, or finding their feces while I'm working in the garden.
     
  20. Mar 26, 2006 #19
    :rofl: Yeah, my lack of caring about my cat, RIGHTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT :rofl: :uhh:

    You still think a cat is a toy that you lock inside your house. Give me a break. Maybe I should put my cat in a helmet with diapers too huh? She might fall down and hurt herself while using the litter box! :rofl:


    So what? My cat is not going to single handedly eliminate the songbird population. To think so is utter nonsense.

    Maybe I should post enough citations about how dangerous it is to walk outside your house. Then I can justify locking you inside your own house 24-7 because its not safe out there. I can even give you a bubble. Yes, you can live in your own protective bubble. How does that sound?
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2006
  21. Mar 26, 2006 #20

    Moonbear

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    No, the loving thing is to keep your cat indoors where it is safe. If you truly were a responsible owner, you'd ensure it was not bored by giving it sufficient attention and toys and other forms of enrichment within the home so it would be happy inside. The decision to own a pet is a serious one, not one to take flippantly. If you cannot provide an adequate environment for that pet, and cannot be bothered to keep them safe, then you have no business being a pet owner. It's like people who get a hamster as a pet and then complain it is making noise on the running wheel at night...what did you expect when you got a nocturnal pet? If your cat is begging to go outside, you are NOT providing enough stimulation for it inside. Teenagers beg to stay out all night too, but caring parents don't allow that either because they know it is unsafe.

    That seems to be a VERY selfish attitude. Yeah, gee, "my" cat won't kill ALL the songbirds, all by itself, so I should just be allowed to let it outside to kill whatever ones it wants to, along with every other cat out there. You and the other 30 million cat owners.

    It sounds like someone is trying to rationalize their actions by throwing out entirely unrelated subjects.
     
  22. Mar 26, 2006 #21
    HAAAAH! You are in no position to tell me what is or is not the loving thing for me to do to my cat. The same way I don't go around telling people how to raise their kids, don't sit there and lecture me on loving my cat, please.

    :uhh: Is that a fact moonbear? No, actually its not a fact, it's just nonsense. Cat's are night animals, you can wish and hope all you want that by 'giving them love and attention' during the day that it will change that fact, it wont.


    Yes, so selfish of me. In her lifetime of ~16 years, my cat killed a staggering what, 12 birds at MOST? Jeesh call the police! There will be no birds left with these 30 milion cats killing all the birds! Police! Police! :rolleyes:

    A cat can go out and kill whatever it want's to, there's no law against it. It's called nature. It will happen if you like it or not. Maybe you should go capture all the other natural preditors of birds, because I assure you cat's are not their number 1 problem.

    Hey, maybe they should give it more love and attention during the day. Obviously there not becuase it's running at night, right? :rolleyes:
     
  23. Mar 26, 2006 #22

    Moonbear

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    I'm explaining how to CARE for your cat. You might think you do, but you aren't.

    No, it IS a fact. And here is a veterinarian's recommendation on how to provide a home suitable for a cat. http://maxshouse.com/Healthy+Happy_Indoors.htm
    Besides, who said you should give them all the love and attention during the day either? If they need attention at night, you took on the responsibility of caring for them, give it to them at night then. Again, it's about knowing the animal you have chosen for a pet and caring for it properly by being a RESPONSIBLE owner. A lot of people get cats because they think they are "easy" pets. Well, they aren't. They take work, just like any other pet. If you're not going to bother caring for it and are just going to let it roam loose at night, you are not a responsible pet owner and do not belong having that cat. Give it to someone else who will properly care for it.

    And that is exactly what's happening in many places, populations of songbirds are being dramatically reduced by domestic cats, which are NOT any natural part of the ecosystem. What do you have against the birds anyway that you don't care if your cat cruelly kills them for no reason? And if your outdoor cat has reached 16 yrs old, you've just been VERY lucky.

    No, it's not nature. They are domesticated animals, not wild animals. And, it is against the law, at least in some places. In Louisiana, for example, it is against the law for cats to leave the owner's property. As more and more communities realize how much of a health risk and nuisance roaming cats are, and how destructive they are to the wildlife, and how dangerous and neglectful it is to the cat, they are enacting similar laws. Canada also has similar laws already (ask Danger about that...he's familiar with the need to keep his cats indoors).

    They are a pretty major part of the problem. The NATURAL predators of birds are part of the normal ecosystem. Again, cats are NOT a natural predator, they are an INTRODUCED predator. The natural predators actually eat what they kill, cats just kill for play...they are already fed by their owners.

    No, you accept that it's going to be noisy in the house at night. Just like your cat is going to enjoy running around the house playing with stuff at night too. If that bothers you, don't get a cat or a hamster or any other nocturnal pet. You should educate yourself on these things BEFORE you adopt a pet, not just look at it and say, "oh, how cute and fluffy," and then neglect it when you get home.

    http://www.geocities.com/heartland/pointe/9352/indoors.html
    http://www.toronto.ca/animal_services/cats_outdoors.htm
     
  24. Mar 26, 2006 #23
    I have to say that I agree with Cyrus. Cats WILL want to go out side no matter what. Dags are taken outside for walks and generally kept on leashes. Leashes for cats though is a bit rediculous and really kind of mean.
    My parents have three cats. One stays outside most of the day, not because they want to get rid of it but because it wants to go outside and play and will give you hell otherwise, and the other two stay inside. Now the two that stay inside do so because they have always been indoor cats. They still want to go outside but because they are so timid from being indoors all their lives they don't get along well out there. When they do get outside, which cats do invariably find their way outdoors at some point, they are scared out of their wits and have no idea what to do with themselves. One in particular is such a scaredy cat that if someone weren't there to grab her and put her back inside immediately she would probably bolt and never be heard from again or at the very least come back injured a while later.
    When a cat is kept inside it becomes fat, lazy, and/or timid and there's really no telling what will happen to it if it does get outside for any particular length of time because it's not at all used to it. I've never met a person with an outdoor cat that worried that their cat might get hurt because it knew how to take care of itself. Every person I have known with an indoor cat has gone absolutely bananas in worry over thier cat every time it gets out of the house and launchs a frantic hunt across the neighborhood looking for it.
     
  25. Mar 26, 2006 #24
    Quite frankly, that is your opinion. It has been noted.

    Yeah, sure. Lucky for 16 years, Right. :rolleyes:

    :rolleyes: Ok, thanks for the input. :rolleyes:

    My cat might possibly kill one or two birds if shes lucky. Boo,hoo,hoo. Death is a part of nature. You don't want to accept that fact.

    That's good for Louisiana, I don't live there.

    Good for him, I don't live in Canada.

    Meh? One dead bird. Big deal. :rolleyes:

    Frankly, that's your opinion. I lived in two neighborhoods with my cat. In my old neighborhood, she and all the other cats would run around all night and play together. No one cared.

    In my new neighborhood, there were a few cats, but not many. So she would not go out as much because she had no other cat's to chase around. There was also a Fox in the new neighborhood that would go around screaming at night. It would make a loud cry. So we let her out at night, but not all night. And when she was out, we kept an ear open for the fox. The other neighbors had a cat, and they said the cat would play with the fox. We were more cautious, but if the fox got into a fight with her, then the fox got into a fight with her. The same way she could kill a bird, a fox could kill her. Thats nature. There is a wooded area/ field with tall grass in my back yard. People walk on that path with their dogs running loose all the time. The dogs run up and down and jump and chase other dogs. I guess there such horrible owners too!
    :rolleyes:

    I don't agree with you on this moonbear, and I am not going to. So we will just agree to disagree. Have a nice day.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2006
  26. Mar 26, 2006 #25

    Moonbear

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    And the opinion of veterinarians.

    http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/CCAB/provide.htm

    Meh, one dead cat. :rolleyes:

    How do you know no one cared?

    Actually, yes, they are. There are leash laws for dogs too.

    Don't say I didn't try. It's just too bad I care more about the health and well-being of your cat than you seem to. Are you even reading the sites I'm linking you to? They are from veterinarians, humane societies, veterinary schools, wildlife and natural resource sites...these aren't cat or animal haters.

    From the UC Davis Veterinary site I just linked above:
    Why does nobody question that dogs aren't allowed to express their natural behaviors of running in packs and chasing rabbits and roaming the entire neighborhood? Because they've come to realize that's not the best way to care for a dog or to be a good neighbor. It's time for cat owners to realize the same thing.
     
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