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Induced electric field

  1. Dec 11, 2012 #1
    Can electric field be induced at a point near a time varying uniform magnetic field? "Near" means not the in the place where magnetic field exist. But at a point outside the field's presence.
     
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  3. Dec 11, 2012 #2

    mfb

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    You can induce electric fields everywhere. Why do you expect that it would not be possible somewhere?
     
  4. Dec 12, 2012 #3

    Meir Achuz

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    You probably meant 'by a magnetic field, but not in the place where the magnetic field exists.

    A time varying magnetic field will have time varying vector potential
    [tex]\frac{\partial{\bf A}}{\partial t}[/tex] that can exist beyond the field, and induce an E field. This is like the 'Aharonov-Bohm' effect.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  5. Dec 12, 2012 #4
    Yes. Say, for example, there's a long solenoid with a time-varying current I(t) running through it. The resulting magnetic field is nonzero only inside the solenoid. However, (assuming ∂B/∂t isn't zero) the electric field induced will also be nonzero outside of the solenoid.
     
  6. Dec 12, 2012 #5

    mfb

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    Only in areas where there is a changing magnetic field.

    ∂B/∂t ≠ 0 implies that there is a magnetic field (apart from some specific points in time maybe).
     
  7. Dec 13, 2012 #6
    Take a circular area beyond the region of changing magnetic field,but it should include changing magnetic field area then
    E.2∏R=-∏r2.∂B/∂t,E is induced in region beyond WHERE B changes.
     
  8. Dec 13, 2012 #7

    Meir Achuz

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    B= curl A. Apply Stokes' theorem for a B field in a solenoid.
    This gives an A outside the solenoid, where there is no B.
     
  9. Dec 13, 2012 #8

    mfb

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    I don't see how your quote and your post are related. You can get a non-zero A everywhere if you like - even in a perfect vacuum, as you have gauge freedom. But you do not get an electric field without a changing magnetic field or some charge distribution.
     
  10. Dec 13, 2012 #9
    Yes, but only inside the solenoid. The electric field it produces also "exists" (is nonzero) outside the solenoid where B=0.
     
  11. Dec 13, 2012 #10

    mfb

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    Sorry, but what you want just violates the laws of physics.

    $$curl(B)=\frac{1}{c}\frac{\partial E}{\partial t} + \frac{4\pi}{c} j$$
    You do not want currents and no magnetic field? => electric field is time-invariant. You cannot switch it on or off.

    This means that a time-independent charge distribution (which might consist of moving charges) is the only relevant option for a source of an electric field.
     
  12. Dec 13, 2012 #11
    No, it certainly doesn't. If there's a long solenoid of radius a and turn density n with a current I(t) running through it, it will induce a magnetic field B(t)=μ0nI(t) inside the solenoid. Outside of the solenoid B=0 everywhere.

    Evaluating the integral ∫E∙ds=-∂/∂t ∫B∙dA ⇔ E=-μ0na2 I'(t) / 2r

    Even though B=0 outside the solenoid, it still produces a nonzero E outside the solenoid.
     
  13. Dec 13, 2012 #12

    K^2

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    Transformers violate laws of physics? You learn something new every day!

    Sorry, I shouldn't be mean about it. It is a bit counter-intuitive. But yeah, if you take an infinitely-long solenoid, the magnetic field is ONLY present inside the solenoid. Yet you can wrap another solenoid around it, and induce a current on it by time-varying the current on the inner-solenoid. The B-field outside remains zero, but E-field is non-zero.

    This all has to do with curl of the electric field being governed by ∂B/∂t. Outside of the solenoid, both curl and divergence of E is zero, but it doesn't mean that the field itself is zero. Feel free to verify that circular E field with 1/R intensity satisfies conditions of both curl and divergence being zero. (In other words for [itex]E = E_0\frac{\hat{\phi}}{r}[/itex], [itex]\nabla \cdot E = 0[/itex] and [itex]\nabla \times E = 0[/itex] everywhere except r=0.)
     
  14. Dec 14, 2012 #13
    I have shown in post no.6 that even outside a solenoid if one take a circular area and if it encloses the region of changing magnetic field then electric field will be induced at far distances also.
     
  15. Dec 14, 2012 #14

    mfb

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    Ah ok, you are right. So we need a coil of infinite length, where B(t) changes linear in time. This gives a constant (in time), circular E(t) and no magnetic field outside.
     
  16. Dec 20, 2012 #15
    then..how will a time varying electric field induce magnetic field and where?
     
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