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Is a post doc a requirement for a university position? Has anyone heard of a person going from industry to a university?
Hmm, that's weird, I know of at least two assistant professors at my university that have gotten the job with only one post-doc (one in condensed matter physics, the other in geophysics). And I didn't even have to look to hard, total number of CV's viewed was less than 5.What field are we talking about? In physics, obtaining a full-time job at a research university essentially requires (a) extreme talent and motivation, (b) multiple postdocs, and (c) quite a bit of luck. In the 25 years since I finished my undergrad degree, nobody I know has ever gotten such a job with one postdoc, let alone zero postdocs. The most brilliant physics major I knew as an undergrad, who was the commencement speaker at our physics graduation at UC Berkeley, did not get a permanent research job. He did one postdoc and then couldn't find another postdoc position, which meant he could not continue in research. He went into computers.
Do you feel like the transition was harder than it would've been than if you were a post doc?I transitioned from industry to a university. I'm not sure a post-doc is a *requirement*, but it's close to being one.
Sorry, I should've been more clear. It is for physics, probably applied physics (electronics is my interest at the moment) if that makes a difference. I know I will enjoy grad school. And I would be perfectly content with my life going into industry. But like most physics majors out there, I would like a university research/professor position somewhere down the line but I'm not sure I want to move around doing several post docs when I'm thirty.What field are we talking about? In physics, obtaining a full-time job at a research university essentially requires (a) extreme talent and motivation, (b) multiple postdocs, and (c) quite a bit of luck. In the 25 years since I finished my undergrad degree, nobody I know has ever gotten such a job with one postdoc, let alone zero postdocs. The most brilliant physics major I knew as an undergrad, who was the commencement speaker at our physics graduation at UC Berkeley, did not get a permanent research job. He did one postdoc and then couldn't find another postdoc position, which meant he could not continue in research. He went into computers.
My advice to people in your position is this: don't go to grad school unless you are sure you'll enjoy grad school for its own sake, and do it with the understanding that even if you're brilliant, your chances of getting a permanent research job are not very high (certainly far less than 50%).
I know of several high energy theorists that went into Wall Street, and are now faculty at reasonably big name universities. The key thing is that they aren't faculty in the physics department, but are teaching courses either in the business school or finance departments.But like most physics majors out there, I would like a university research/professor position somewhere down the line but I'm not sure I want to move around doing several post docs when I'm thirty.
Interesting question... there's no clear way for me to answer this, since I only experienced a single career path. However, with the benefit of hindsight, here's what I can offer:Do you feel like the transition was harder than it would've been than if you were a post doc?
Good question- I never applied, since I don't have a degree in engineering and would have likely not been considered.Wow, thanks a lot Andy. That's a lot of help. Seriously, thanks.
You said you ended up doing more engineering than science in industry and that made you less desirable for science positions. Did it make you more desirable for engineering faculty positions?
In my experience, supervising post-docs is a lot easier than advising/supervising undergrads- I am constantly terrified that I am giving them bad advice. Post-docs have a lot of experience already, so it's a matter of fine-tuning rather than a rough cut.Considering that part of a faculty member's job is to supervise post-docs, it's hard to imagine that they are ready until they have had at least the equivalent experience of being a post-doc.
This is field dependent. Post-docs are practically unheard of in business and finance departments, because Ph.D.'s immediately find faculty positions after they graduate.Considering that part of a faculty member's job is to supervise post-docs, it's hard to imagine that they are ready until they have had at least the equivalent experience of being a post-doc.
My dissertation was about 50% fluids, 50% optics- it was an experimental study of liquid bridges, for example:Andy - what was your thesis on?? I'm having an insanely hard time getting in with defense contractors, and I'd absolutely love to work for them. My research has been primarily in observational astrophysics. If you want more details, I have an active thread in this subforum.
I would have had an easier time in something like solid state I think.
Well, this IS Physics Forums. If someone asked on Finance Forums, they might get a different answer.This is field dependent. Post-docs are practically unheard of in business and finance departments, because Ph.D.'s immediately find faculty positions after they graduate.
Any idea if it would make me less desirable if my Phd wasn't in engineering? Current plan is applied physics.I'd think engineering departments like the industrial experience. Most of the profs at my university (Ontario) are professional engineers (so they spent a reasonable amount of time in industry). One professor spent almost his entire career in industry then just last year moved into academia and got a full prof job, but I'm not sure if he did a post-doc right after his PhD.
It's all about how much money you're brining to the table. Do you have a track record of getting research grants? Do you have some opportunities already in the pipe? Or are you just looking for a smooth teaching gig and to do a little research on the side? I know, I know, not the last one. But you don't have to convince me, you have to convince them.Any idea if it would make me less desirable if my Phd wasn't in engineering? Current plan is applied physics.
Except that I as pointed out a non-trivial number of physics Ph.D.'s end up as faculty in business and finance departments. It would be interesting to compare the number of high energy theorists that end up with a faculty position in a finance department versus in the physics department, and I think the numbers would be significant.Well, this IS Physics Forums. If someone asked on Finance Forums, they might get a different answer.
So let's discuss physics. If the rules are different in finance, or art history, or in music, it doesn't answer the OP's question.It is for physics, probably applied physics
The rules of finance departments are relevant to physics Ph.D.'s, because a non-trivial number of physics Ph.D.'s (particularly theorists) end up as faculty in business and finance departments, and it's a lot easier to make the transition if you know the rules.So let's discuss physics. If the rules are different in finance, or art history, or in music, it doesn't answer the OP's question.